That is just gross! I'm glad you got your life together now. I see why they sometimes call men dogs. That is what dogs do. They hunch on anything that moves, and sometimes they hunch on other male dogs. (Hmm.. if you get my drift!) :D Anyway, what is wrong with getting your own woman? I don't understand the reasoning behind fraternity members sleeping with the same woman. I guess half of the time the guys that join these fraternities are sometimes the lame guys with no game. They have to use their fraternity letters to get the attention of women. That has never really attracted me with guys.

I have dated a lot of guys that weren't a part of a fraternity. The reason why is because they had more to talk about than their fraternity or their frat brothers. That irritated me having to sit up and listen to a guy talk about his fraternity or wanted to hang out with his line brothers all the time. It makes me think that the guy isn't a well-rounded or balanced individual. Anyway, just my opinion. :)

Some men feel the same way. I would not want to share anything unless I had it first. I have never had sloppy seconds not even for my brothers.

I'm thinking women seem to be different in a sense, because to me they don't seem to be as open about their sexual struggles because of the humiliation that comes with giving sex in order to get love. Women don't seem to be the ones bragging about the number of sexual partners they've had. I would think that's because for a woman the relationship is the prize, the sex was simply the price she paid to get the prize. If she paid the price, but still didn't get the prize, I think there's an incredible amount of humiliation that comes with that. Most men seem to be proud of the amount of women they've slept with. To me, I'm embarrased for the men who practice this kind of dysfuntional behavior too.

I agree. It is nasty and personally I don't think there's any excuse for it. I think a lot of times the women that get passed around from joker to joker, they often make the mistake of believing that because they are so attracted to someone, they will inevitably fall into a relationship with that person, regardless of how inappropriate that relationship may be.

A lot of jokers join fraternities to get women. The sad thing about it is these groupies are attracted to these same insecure men who also have low self esteem. Anytime a joker feels he has to have more than one partner, there's something wrong. And then to join an organization to assist with this problem makes it an even bigger problem.

I also think some women bring it on themselves to attract the "dogs" by the way they dress. To me, presentation is everything when it comes to your body. One of the concepts that I impress upon women is that they teach men how to treat them. She can either teach a man to treat her with respect or treat her with disrespect. What I mean by this, is she can do this by her modest dress or her immodest attire. The kind of advertising she presents, are the kind of customers she's going to attract. If she dresses like a hoe, she'll attract hoes. If she dresses like a respectable lady, then she'll attract respectable men.

Why do you feel it your responsibility to impress this idea upon women? What are you doing to teach other men about how to treat women respectfully regardless of what they wear; quiet as its kept, men treating women poorly is as much a reflection on the man (because he is making choices there too) as it is on the woman. Men should know better too. Are you doing your part to impress those lessons on the men you know?

Why do I feel it's my responsibility? Actually I don't feel it is. I have friends and associates, men and women who ask of my opinion on certain issues, so when they ask, I give.

Also, if you read some of my previous posts on this thread, I have opinions on the men as well.:)

Actually, men can sometimes approach women in a disrespectful manner when they are fully clothed. If being disrespectful is in the nature of the man, they will act that way towards women regardless of how they are dressed. There have been times in the past, and I'm sure this has happened to some other women, where I have been approached in a disrespectful way when I was covered from head to toes in clothes. (Blue jeans and a T-shirt) LOL So if it is in the character of the man, they will be disrespectful. What I'm trying to say is that men who haven't been raised to respect women, will have a problem doing it regardless. I find that a lot of guys who are disrespectful sometimes come from a single parent household. They don't have a father figure at home to raise them in the right direction or how to treat a lady. Things such as holding doors for a woman or speaking politely are things that they lack. I'm not saying that all guys who come from a single parent household lack home training. There are some guys that have had other male relatives or someone in the community that reached out to them and showed them positive male qualities. If there aren't any positive reinforcements coming into these young men's lives, they will find other paths to find out how to conduct themselves. Such as BET or these rappers. Part of the problem is this rap music, when there are songs that constantly degrade women. Some of these men do not value women because their mind has been brainwashed to think that women are h*es, gold diggers, etc., because of this music. This rap music is of the devil and it's creeping into the African American community and taking the black men down the wrong path. It is interesting that the white artists don't have music that degrades their women. Anyway, that's another topic.

Prettyboy, I do understand where you are coming from with how a woman should dress. Women don't have to scream "I'm Sexy" with their clothes all the time. Women can be just as sexy, fully dressed! I have worn modest clothes to a party and have had just as many guys approach me (in a positive manner) than the women who were unclad. Many times women get caught up in the styles of clothing. Like this season, short is in with the fashion magazines! Yet, women have to walk a thin line because they shouldn't want people to have the wrong impression of them. Yet, you can't always judge a book by it's cover. The lady just simply might like fashion, and she might not be trying to draw negative attention. I think sometimes guys might read too much into it. :) I do feel that women should dress age appropiately. That irritates me to see a woman in her mid to late 30's or 40's dressing like a 20 year old or teenager. Stay out of the Junior's department please! :D

Very long...but its how I feel so...
 

I have to say that I understand fully that as a woman I may attract unwanted attention by dressing in an inappropriate manner, but like others have said its more about how that particular guy is.

It has been my experience that if you have halfway decent looks men will make comments no matter what you're wearing.
I've gone out in mens sweatpants and oversized t-shirts and had guys come at me. One time a group of us were standing at the bus stop waiting on the bus to go somewhere (I think we were coming back from a restaurant) we were all wearing jeans and a top and a car full of guys rode by and as they passed they yelled something lewd and we ignored them. The guys came back and then got out of the car and came over to where we were. One of them approached me and I let him know I wasn't interested and asked him to go away. he proceeded to call me a b#$%h and sulk. He wated until the bus came and then as I was turned around and in line for the bus he tried to grab my butt. Mind you I was wearing a pair of jeans and a long sleeve shirt (it was winter) and sneakers nothing fancy and nothing over the top and guys were still being disrespectful.

I also feel like I should not have to base how I dress on what some man will or wont say or do. I dont feel like I should have to change what I'm going to wear because some men are ignorant.

Women do not teach men how to treat them by what they wear women teach men how to treat them by how they raise their sons. I cannot make a man respect me by wearing a business suit or a skirt that is 3/4 an inch above my ankles. If a man is disrespectful then that is what he will be toward me.

Its a shame that the majority of the blame for disrespectful incidents is placed on women. It is a common misconception that a woman can control how she is approached by a man with her choice of outfit. It is not true! The only person who can control how a man talks to or acts toward a woman is that man. Saying that a woman can control that is like saying a woman can aviod sexual assault by dressing properly. She cannot.

It is about men having manners and control of themselves. Dont get me wrong I dont like to see women 1/2 naked and i dont think its right, but i also dont think a man should be given a pass because she is dressed poorly.

Truth be told it is not the way a woman dresses it is a combination of economic status (which will determine where she lives) and the guy who is approaching her. If you live in a middle middle class to upper middle class and above area then you are less likely to run into guys who will say and do disrespectful things. There are fools everywhere so you wont be exempt, but you also wont be hassled all the time.

As a young woman with what I consider to be good looks and a nice body I am constantly aware of the possible consequences of my actions. When considering what to wear (or even if i will go) to a party/club I am cognizant of the fact that it will be late when I am headed home and I live in an urban area where rape/assault/sexual assault/grave danger is a possibility. Since on campus we are not allowed to carry any type of weapon(poket knife) or protection (pepper spray/Mace) I have to be aware of the fact that I may be in danger and that I can only protect myself using my body and physical force which may not be enough. I have learned that depending on the police is a waste of time and campus police is a JOKE! It is really unfair and unnecessary that as young women we cant get dressed in what we want or like (even if it is a freakum dress to wear to a party to feel sexy) because we might be "putting ourselves in danger" and the danger we face is a bunch of irresponsible and ignorant men who cannot control themselves and who are not held accountable for their actions.
if an incident occurs the response is "she shouldnt have been wearing xyz in the 1st place she knew what she was doin when she put that on" instead of people saying this man needs to be taught how to keep his hands/body parts/words to himself. In our communities lately it seems that we want to blame women instead of forcing men to be responsible. If I am out with MEN that I know and trust and some guy approaches me the wrong way I know that my peeps will let him know its not cool to act like that and that they will protect me. the problem is that there are not many men in my age group (18-25). Most of the guys around are boys trying to become men. There is nothing that is expected from these guys. When my parents were growing up (and how my mom raised me) the expectation was that a man would not disrespect a woman and he would also not stand by and let a woman be disrespected. I've heard guys tell stories about how they sat and watched women get brutally beaten by men and i really cant get with it. it makes me sick and honestly it makes them less of a man to me. If the standard was that a man was not allowed to be disrespectful and women were not allowed to dress like strippers then all would be right in the community (ha!) but alas this isnt a perfect world!

i see prettyboy's point. women DO allow it to happen. the men who do it are pieces of shit, regardless. but it wouldn't happen as often if it didn't work as often as it does.

ETA: the above has nothing to with rape. those men are pieces of shit irrelevant of siteatchun.

I agree with the two ladies above. You're absolutely right. I'm just saying women who dress too fast don't have any respect for themselves. A woman who has no respect for herself won't have any respect for others either. A classy woman to me is a woman who presents herself as an attractive woman because she knows she represents God to others. I know it can happen anywhere, but women like this who respect themselves generally don't hang out where no good men with bad morals hang out. To me, a woman with integrity lives a life that lines up with her Christian beliefs. She lives according to the standard of love rather than law. She doesn't "claim" to be a follower of Christ, yet disregard His many teachings on immodest dress. IMO, a woman of integrity lives what she believes about God , and it shows everywhere from head to toe.

Also the father figure was mentioned earlier. Yes, I agree. My parents have been married for 45 years and as a child and a man, all I've ever seen my dad do was/is serve and respect my mom. I'm not saying that a single mother can't raise a fine young man, because I've seen it happen. I do think it's a blessing to have a father figure in the home though. As far as rap music is concerned, I think it's the videos too, but I don't think it corrupts all black men. I listen to some old school rap, but I don't disrespect women, I never have and I never will. I don't allow many women into my life. It's one woman for me. Always has been, always will be. A lot gang banging, drugs, and alcoholism is mentioned in rap music too, but I don't gang bang, drink, or do drugs either. So some black men don't get influenced by rap music.

starang you and I are -------------->HERE<-----------------------

ETA: Nothing wrong with drinking, if done responsibly. I just don't drink because of the taste.:-)

men only treat women like bitches and hoes only because women allow us. women have the real power!!!!

sounds like you have had some bad experiences. your point goes to show that not only men but women can also do some crazy things. as for me, i have always been liked by the most desirable ladies on the yard. i was not lame and had my pick of dates and relationships. however, i realize that may not be the case for everyone . :cool:

:cool::cool:

Huh? :confused: Explain please. I don't understand where you get the notion that my statement "goes to show that not only men but women can do some crazy things."

I guess I spoke too soon about you having your life together. :rolleyes: I guess you do have a point, because a woman would be a complete fool to date a man who refers to women as bitches and hoes. Just a thought.

You aren't one of those who feel that women have to be dressed with a skirt all the way down to the ankles and wearing a turtle neck, are you? LOL Like I said before, there are a lot of women who like fashion and have diversity in their style. I'm a Holy Ghost filled woman of God, and I wear make-up and I keep up with the latest styles. I'm sure that I don't fit the mold of what some Pentecostal women would want me to wear. If you follow their beliefs they feel that women are going to Hell because they wear blue jeans and make-up. God calls us to be free, and to enjoy life. I'm a classy woman who loves God, and I feel I represent God well in the way I dress. It might not be a skirt all the way down to my ankles all the time, but God loves my sense of style because he gave me those creative gifts. God gifted me with the ability to apply my make-up and to coordinate some slamming outfits! God isn't concerned about the outside as much as he is concerned with the inner man of the heart. There are plenty of women who dress very modestly and be the biggest freaks! Sleeping around with everything! Like I said, you shouldn't always judge a book by it's cover. The girl with the short skirt might very well be a woman who operates in integrity. Jesus said something very interesting to the Pharisees in Matthew 23:27-28. He told them that they appeared to be righteous on the outside but on the inside they were filled with hypocrisy and wickedness. They were like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. I thought this scripture was a prime example of not judging people based on outward appearances because everything is not what it seems to be.

*** By the way, I am a person who keeps things balanced with the way I dress, but I'm just making sure that you aren't on the extreme as the Pentecostals are. Thinking that women have to be covered from head to toe and that makes them "righteous".

That may be true, but a real man is respectful of women regardless the packaging, because that is a reflection of who he is as a man; at least, that is my opinion. I am certainly going to think less of a man who is disrespectful of any woman regardless of whether she "asks" for it or not.

Your comments were as follows

"Anyway, what is wrong with getting your own woman? I don't understand the reasoning behind fraternity members sleeping with the same woman."

My point being that women are also stupid for sleeping with us. I guess they are just as "lame," have low self esteem, are without father figures and so on - lol

not only. but it plays a part. a man of certain of caliber will treat a woman accordingly regardless of how the woman will respond. a man who looks for a woman to justify his actions isn't a man.

Yeah, they might have a low self esteem or could be lame because there are plenty of men on a college campus besides the Greeks.

Nope. I'm not one of those men who only date women who are completely covered. I like to see skin too.:D I am a leg man you know.;)

You're right, some women can dress nice and still be low down. Then you have some that wear short skirts (too short) and are great women. That's cool, but women who wear really short skirts, I find it to be unattractive. It's actually a turn off to me. It just depends on the taste of the man.

Blue jean skirts aren't in. LOL

I remember you didn't know about pencil skirts a few months ago. :cool:

:)

I knew what they were, I just didn't know what they were called. Who said a joker can't learn something new on greekchat.:D

Men in general treat women how they present themselves to be treated. I think men well try you and LBs as well to see your worth, are you a groupie to passed and shared, or someone to take more seriously? Just because a guy tells you they share doesn't mean you should take it as an appropriate invite even if it is tradition (or not).

I personally haven't incountered this. Maybe its wrong, but although I have much respect for greek men I'm more cautious around them. I wouldn't date one just to do it like a fling, it would have to be some real feelings. I'm still in college and wouldn't want my relationship with one to compromise me in other situations. I don't think you should double dip into an organzation by having a relationship or fling with more than one... I just think thats awkward. But that rule for me applies not only to greeks, but athletes, and just groups of friends in general. I feel like if I date one, and things go south and stitch to one of their LBs its not a good look.

lol "Danger she smashed the homies" comes to mind

But I'm just a sisterfriend in college and thats my perspective.