There have been more than a few smaller, 4-year schools opening for NPC expansion over the past decade where it's ended up that NO NPC groups have 'taken the bait' to expand. What could possibly make community colleges a more attractive, desirable option for expansion by an NPC group over one of those NPC-rejected schools? :confused:

Possibly sheer numbers. If a community college has 30,000 students and the 4-year school has 1,500, the CC *might* be better able to keep a chapter.

*However*, the experience of Alpha Phi Omega (Scouting Fraternity at that point) in the late 1960s and early 1970s might be useful. Prior to the 1960s, Alpha Phi Omega had a few chapters at 2-year schools, but they mostly weren't what we would call traditional Community Colleges. During the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was an effort to consider Community Colleges as well and about 30 chapters were created that that type of school. Today, none of those chapters are active. I believe that right now there are two active Co. One is a close in feed CC to University of Illinois where the chapter at U of Illinois can help support and the other is at Georgia Military College which isn't a normal CC.

I can also think of a couple other reasons. The CC might be in an area with a ton of alumni interested in volunteering, whereas I know some of the 4-year schools that didn't get any interest were in the middle of goddamn nowhere and probably didn't have any kind of alumni base nearby for any organization.

Also, some 4-year schools have either former national orgs gone local, always-local orgs, or other student orgs filling a similar niche that have serious RFM and/or hazing concerns. If a school already has a strong hazing culture, it makes perfect sense that no NPC group would want to swim against the current trying to create a chapter where hazing isn't tolerated when every other social group on campus does it. A community college that's essentially a blank slate in terms of student org campus culture would be a much easier and safer choice.

We have a couple universities (Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Wayne State) that I can think of off the top of my head where students take some of their classes at the main university but some of the basics at a community college. So they are half time at each. It has caused membership questions since they aren't full time. It saves them a TON of money though. In situations like that, it could make sense. There's also a community college in Texas where the students are automatically transferred to the 4 year University, isn't there? It's a niche case, but it exists.

You are probably thinking of Blinn College and Texas A&M in Bryan, TX

Does anyone know any NPC update RE: Expanding to CC?

I found this on Alpha Sigma Alpha web site:
https://www.alphasigmaalpha.org/news...re-task-force/

I believe NPC usually meets in late October. I think that ASA is just preparing for a change, just in case the rules change.

Bumping, incase there has been movement from the NPC.

Are there any NPC Sororities that would be able to return to their founding (or early) schools if these rules went into effect? While some of those were two year at the time, I tend to expect that most of those of those schools are either no longer around or have become four year schools.

Tri Delta said in their latest issue of the trident that they may extend into community colleges in the future. I am curious to see how this process would work not only for my own sorority but if others decide to follow suit.

This issue? https://issuu.com/tridelta/docs/fall21_01_68-2

Can you point out where? I skimmed the issue but must have missed it. It's also pretty late, so I'm not sure I'm seeing straight right now!

Did a search of the publication (neat feature of ISSUU online) and found this on page 10, under "BRAVE: IDENTIFY AND DISMANTLE RACISM: subtext heading In Progress"
"Continue work on expanding pathways to membership including alumnae initiation and the possibility of extension at community colleges"

Nowhere does it say what Cookiez17 wrote, that they may extend membership into CCs. Merely that they are looking at the possibility. What we have is yet another example of misquoting and getting exercise jumping to conclusions. Sigh.

I've read in solid newspapers, and heard on decent radio programs, that community college enrollments have gone down. Considering covid and the lowered number of HS grads available to move-on to college, not surprising.

When I say "may" this was meant to say potentially as per the Trident issue. They will certainly have to research first, along with looking at the state of college due to Covid.

One interesting aspect of CC expansion would be transfers to a 4 year institution. Currently some sororities have a policy that assures initiated members in good standing can transfer their membership to any chapter. Other groups allow the chapters to meet the potential transfer and then vote whether or not to allow the member to join their chapter.

Remember the stories we have read here about PNMs aspiring to join ONLY their perceived top chapter transferring to a college with a less competitive chapter of the same sorority when their hopes and dreams are dashed on the rocks during rush, THEN transferring back to original college after initiation hoping to transfer smoothly into their dream chapter, only to be voted down by that chapter? Unless policies of some sororities are changed if expansion to CCs happens, some CC chapters members will be sorely disappointed.

Another interesting facet is that currently transfers can be accepted even if the chapter is above total. What happens when a 100 member pledge class graduates with their AA degree from Alpha CC and they all transfer to Beta University and seek admission to their sorority's chapter there?

Quoting here (it's from last year) so you don't have to hunt for it. Well said.

ETA: Did any NPC group, holding their biennial convention in summer 2021, already take a vote and accept the option to colonize at community colleges in anticipation of a possible positive NPC decision to allow that type of colony?

Yeah, I did not volunteer to join my sorority’s task force because my contribution would consist of two words totalling six letters.

LOL!

"LOVE IT"?

:D

No, those are not the words. 😝

"SO CUTE"? :D



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_ _ _ _ N O

Is there an 'F'?

HECK YA?

Go Blue? :D

Or Hail no?

Can I buy a vowel?

Did the NPC Task Force charged with looking into the possibility of allowing groups to establish chapters at Community Colleges set a time limit for their task?

I don't believe so.

I find this discussion interesting. At it's core:
1 - What does sisterhood mean and who should be allowed to participate
2 - Will the national NPC orgs continue to grow/exist if change does not occur
3 - Are we okay with sororities continuing to be mainly for a socioeconomically advantaged population
4 - Do we care about diversity

The vast majority of members of my sorority in the 1980s did not have to work while in college. I would venture to say it was less than 10% of our membership. I can only recall three people. Some girls worked summer camps - but very few had any sort of employment during the school year. This prevented access to sorority membership for a large portion of our school's student population. The cost of college has way outpaced income in my state. While enrollment at my college is about the same - sorority membership has decreased. More people are having to work to earn money for the same education. There are now 5 sororities instead of 6 and the chapter totals are lower.

Interestingly my college has not increased its enrollment in 30 years. But the state has really grown. My college competes for students with a couple of the Junior Colleges/Community Colleges mentioned previously by @swtxbelle.

To your first point: It's not just about who should be allowed to participate as a sorority member. A college student has to earn the right to join, and then participate in, a sorority by performing and maintaining simple standards of education and conduct.

To answer your second point: The answer remains to be seen. Any changes that have been made/not made must be given time to take root, and results collected and examined. As the Magic 8 Ball might state, ask again later.

Your third point is your opinion. Each NPC sorority handles membership affordability in their own manner. Based upon my own sorority experience I cannot say as easily as you do that only socioeconomically advantaged women are able to start and maintain a lifelong sorority membership.

And as to your fourth point: Yes.The NPC, and her many millions of members, care about diversity/having a diverse membership. We as sorority women have, can, and are continuing to strengthen our lives, hearts and minds thru enhanced diversity discussions and practices.

Honest question: are you serious?

How many members do you think we have join our organizations after a few surface-level conversations, followed by weeks of showering them with love and gifts? What did they "earn" in that regard? Why couldn't a community college student "earn" membership in the same way? Are you suggesting community college students can't maintain education and conduct standards?

Also, sorority membership isn't a "right," and if it was, you wouldn't need to earn it at all.

Another honest question: how many of those "diversity" discussions are about non-traditional students or people who aren't pursuing four-year degrees?

My $0.02.

"Diversity" in NPC organizations is purely racial.

I see no great effort to seek out those who are physically disabled in some way - deaf, blind, mobility-challenged, etc. Nor to seek out those from other religious cultures, unless they can be differentiated by skin color as well.

I loathe the words diversity and inclusion because they are so vague.

No one I know really cares if their NPC group admits a non-white woman. You know what? I went to an SEC school in the seventies and no one in my group would have cared then.

But NPC seems on a mission to destroy their groups. They don't want us to use recs. They seem to want us to just give up and pledge anyone who walks in the door. Recs introduce us to women we don't know and they also warn us about women we reaaaally shouldn't pledge. Let's say we pledge a couple of people we like during recruitment (no background information on them bc no recs) and it turns out that they pull trains. In their letters. Or they make racist or hazing videos. In their letters. Women like this have cost chapters their charters, and the forementioned examples have actually happened several times.

Should we be forced to take anyone? Do football teams have to let anyone walk on and play? Must Phi Beta Kappa have minimum GPAs for induction? Should dues for all organizations be outlawed, or should current members be made to pay dues for people who can't?

Think of what you really want when you're discussing diversity and inclusion.

Fair enough. Use the word 'privilege' instead of the word 'right'. A student earns the privilege of joining, and participating in, a sorority by meeting her chapter's specific membership selection criteria.

Nowhere do I state CC students can't maintain education and conduct standards.

But in deciding whether to allow the privilege of membership to CC students via CC chapters, are we looking for sisters to whom we can give quality experiences?

Or do we tip the scales toward quantity in number of chapters, quantity in number of sisters, and quantity of dues fees paid?

Say the NPC allows its groups to form chapters at CCs. It's been previously mentioned by others on greekchat that if an NPC sorority wants to initiate women attending a CC they'd best be prepared for the inevitablities of:

women choosing to attend a 4 year school, after their CC, that doesn't have their NPC group on campus and thus they decide to drop from the sorority;

women whose 4 year college HAS their NPC chapter, but said chapter has the right to refuse any transferring sister (from either a CC or a 4 year school) from full membership participation.

Somehow those inevitabilities, and others unmentioned, don't add up to a quality sorority experience most women want and deserve.

Additionally, some NPC groups may prefer maintaining a quality of membership that, even if they are allowed, will never include having chapters at a CC. What impression of NPC sororities does that give to a CC student desiring NPC sorority membership?

Given the fact that some of the NPC sororities had a major part of their early growth at two year schools, does this effort open some of those early chapters back up, or are those types of two year schools (mostly women's only finishing schools) long gone, leaving the public community colleges as the two year schools that could extend to?

I think those kinds of schools are pretty much long gone. It’s part of why ASA had to reorganize in 1914, because our chapter roll consisted almost completely of those type of schools and an anti-sorority sentiment was sweeping through them.

I’m not quite sure why this thread has taken the turn it has - I thought the primary argument against CC expansion was (and still is) the amount of turnover. It’s hard to run a GLO when the majority or all of students only stay at the school one or two years. It’s not because CCs are for The Poors.

This!! I know at least where I live and spent a semester at CC for a lot of people its either a path into a 4 year school after they've finished a year or two. For me it was a transitional point before I re-enrolled at a different 4 year university than where I first started.

I know for my cousin who is currently enrolled in CC he relocated from out of state, and wanted to establish his residency in the state with the goal of going to a 4 year university. Going to CC was a much more financially viable option for him as he has to pay for school himself. He figures get his gen ed classes done there and then take his core classes for his major at State U, and hopefully doesn't have as much debt when he graduates. For my niece who started at a 4 year school and I even wrote her a rec (when those were a thing), some events made her return to live with her grandmother, she finished out and got a two year degree from the local CC and then transferred back to a local 4 year university to get her bachelors.

I think for others doing CC they might be older students finally deciding to go back to school and CC is a good option for them to work and go to school.

Although there might be a decline in students interested in participating in greek life, I don't feel like exploring membership options at the CC level is the best long term solution. To me most CC's cater to commuter students at least all of the CC's I'm aware of in the general vicinity of where I live all have commuter students who are likely working full or part-time jobs, so then asking these students to say hey you want to join "ABC Sorority", I have a feeling this path is going to lead no where.

The CPC sends out info to freshmen women, and has websites the PNM can join to receive information and updates. In NPC formal recruitment, the interested potential new member is the one to take the initiative, and sign up to participate in recruitment. The exception to this would be during COB when a sorority member might encourage a friend, roommate, classmate, whom she knows well, to participate in COB activities, although PNMs interested to participate in COB do reach out on their own to CPCs.

I have known Collegiate panhellenics to make every effort to accommodate PNMs with a special need, so that that PNM could fully participate in rush. I have known of sororities who made accommodations for sisters with a special need. I had a deaf chapter sister when I was in college during the Dark Ages. She fully participated in all our rituals and activities, including rush, and was a valued member of the chapter. The bottom line is, SHE took the initiative, and signed up for rush.

Preach! You are so right! My chapter (and others at the same school) had sisters with handicaps. New students are all given information on student organizations at orientation, and who has time to chase down PNMs in special categories? Why should we, recruitment information is available to them too! (Oh, I know. So we can check the boxes for NPC/some HQs that want to know how many "non-typical" women we pledged. Alpha Alpha, have you pledged 10% racially diverse women? And 5% handicapped women? And 5% overweight women? If you haven't, you will be penalized in some way. And by the way, feature all those women on your chapter website.)

Not that these women aren't welcome. They should just be selected on their own merits and not rammed down the sororities' throats.

That’s been my experience with CC as well. Even the “traditional” age students usually weren’t very traditional in the sense that they were working full time or had children/a child to take care of. It was definitely a place to go to classes and then go home. Everyone had this idea that this was temporary- even the people in associates programs knew they’d only be there for a short period of time. It doesn’t seem like a place where a time consuming (and money consuming) activity like a sorority would work out.

Maybe CCs in other parts of the country are different- idk- this is what it’s like where I am from.

This may come off as denegration of my own organization (Alpha Phi Omega), but if a service fraternity (where close together housing members *isn't expected) can't keep the large majority of its chapters at community colleges going why would organizations generally oriented to having communal housing as a part of setup work?

Let me phrase it another way. If a four year school offered to open itself up to an NPC sorority BUT declared that
a)not only couldn't the sorority have housing on campus
b)that while roomates could be chosen , housing otherwise would be random, meaning that no hall/floor could be concentrated into.

My guess is that this would be a nogo for most of the NPC. Community Colleges are *worse* than this.

Which in a lot of ways is the difference between community colleges and the 2-year schools that some of the sororities started at. The old 2-year women's schools *very* definitely had housing.

Not all 4 year colleges have/allow greek housing, but the fact you share that Alpha Phi Omega has had problems sustaining CC chapters speaks volumes as to another chink in the armor of possible NPC CC expansion.