LovelyIvy
 

No one is "arguing" over the word racist/racism...


This is a public forum and everyone reserves the right to post when and how the see fit.Folks can't accept dialogue...oh well.

I do acknowledge that my opinions are just that..mine.I don't see anything wrong with challenging someone on theirs. Isn't that what a forum consists of?????????

without being with someone as they exerience something, one cannot read a text and say yes or no that is or is not racism unless it is admitted somewhere therein, so to each their own opinion, but don't go around saying no that's not/ yes that is racism unless you where there experiencing it with them....standards are deifferent, views, and as we've extablished, definitions.....all different for all sort of people.

In a forum, no one knows what experiences people have been through. That's why they provide DESCRIPTIONS. After that, one can agree or disagree whether or not it constitutes as racism. Don't have to be there to agree or disagree.

How's the weather?
 

It's really hot outside, ya know. :eek:
Maybe I should get off the 'puter and call my fraternity brothers to go to the pool.....or better yet the lake. Should we kayak? Picnic? Swim? Swim in my clothes? Swim in a swimsuit? Swim in a two-piece? T-back? T-front? :D Nekkid? hmm..............

exactly my point.

Please Listen!
 

Aight, this is definitely a topic that speaks to me, so I must respond. First, I happen to be white. Second, I have to say that i agree with most of the things that neicy81. The truth is, it's so easy to talk about how much things have "improved" for an oppressed culture...when you're on the more privileged side, that is. I realize this more than most white people, because I grew up in a very unusually diverse town. Literally, yes literally I was a minority in that town. It's not really relevant, but if you want to get technical, the biggest racial population was hispanic, then black, then white, asian, and then misc. backrounds. It's crazy because I now go to school in NYC, and even there I look around in my classes and I"m like, "what the hell? where are the minorities???" And I think that living in this type of communitywas one of the most important and positive experiences of my life. It really gave me a taste, JUST a tiny little taste of what all of my friends would face for the rest of their lives. I spent a good deal of my childhood(and to tell the truth, much of my present)hating my culture's legacy, wishing I could somehow go back and change it, wondering why it was still happening, and wanting to be anything, anyone but a white girl. As I said, this still sometimes enters my mind, but I've realized that it doesn't change anything. Yes, I believe that everyone of us caucasians needs to have an awakening in their lives, unfortunately sooner or later we all must pay for the sins of our fathers. But that's not enough. What's really important is to move beyond that towards healing, and for that ALL of us must work together--ALL the races. I can't stand it when people, usually the comfortable whites say, "oh, well you know I LIKE black people(or asian, or arab, etc), but it's just, I feel more comfortable with people like me." Not as often, but still too often, minorities say the same damn thing. Um, nonono. Bad idea. It's very dangerous to just remain with what's familiar, because it makes everything else unfamiliar. And what's unfamiliar for a long time becomes strange. And then what's strange becomes frightening---that's the problem with stupid ass humans, we always fear the unfamiliar. So what happens is you have all these white people who know nothing or just media versions of black people. Then they hear one day that a random black person robs a store, and all of a sudden, that is what we apply to everyone else in that culture. Why do you think things are still not equal? Because white people chill in their comfortable white neighborhoods, never taking the time to go out and face the unfamiliar(which I assure you, is really not scary at all, but rich and rewarding). I always make an effort to surround myself with those who are different from me. I'm telling you people, it's imperative. It's imperative for the oppressed too, because you don't want to one day make the same mistakes that we did. And believe me, it can happen. Whites were "lucky" and happened to invent the violent weapons first, which started the whole mess, but it could have been any culture really, and it still could be one day. I don't necessarily believe that the article in this thread was "reverse racism", but one day reverse predjudice, racism, whatever the hell you want to call it, COULD happen. That would be terrible, and I don't say that because I'm white and don't want to lose my footing on top of the mountain, but because whatever culture should take that role would only be hurting itself and proving that WE as HUMANS cannot learn from our mistakes. This is what I believe, I'm afraid it's not the most coherent thing I've ever written, I"m really just spurting out all of my thoughts as they come, but I really hope that someone understands what I'm trying ot say.

You just had a very 'Yoda' moment....

frightening leads to fear, fear leads to hate, hatred leads to suffering... the dark side..

(sorry couldn't resist)

Well now this is strange. I studied history and I don't recall the definition of reverse racism ever popping up. People, get real, racism is discriminating or being prejudice to another race (notice the word race is in the word racism). There is no argument anyone can make intelligently that black people cannot commit racism. Blackism maybe, but racism is not immune to the african-american community. You may preach your arguments, granted they are interesting, but don't pull any history crap on me, I don't care who lynched who first, they've been committing racism LONG before white men stumbled into Africa.

By the way, who titled this post prejudism? I'm not sure, but I don't think that's a word either, but let's not get technical on everyone.

Well, I'm sorry if certain races feel so damaged that they are entitled to vocab immunity, but it just doesn't work like that. I sure as hell didn't do anything to you, so isn't that in a way being verbally racist towards me? Dwell on that for a while before blaming me for slavery... Later.

RUgreek

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RUgreek

I have a quick question. You said :

"[B]People, get real, racism is discriminating or being prejudice to another race (notice the word race is in the word racism). "


and then said:

" I don't care who lynched who first, they've been committing racism LONG before white men stumbled into Africa."


Now looking at your definition of racism, how can blacks commit racism amongst themselves if it is " discriminating or being prejudice to another race "?

Maybe I'm just vocab immune?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RUgreek
Blackism maybe,

:o What do you mean by Blackism ???

RUGreek,
I don't recall anyone BLAMING you for racism, slavery, etc. I believe that AA are soo tired of hearing "it wasn't me" but yet they themselves do NOTHING ( to counter-act it, to admit that it exist, to even see the other side of the coin - reference Cloud9's post above, etc).

I think some people are afraid to post their genuine, and possibly unpopular beliefs, because they fear that people will call for them to be banned or the thread to be locked or deleted.

Not exactly a system that encourages differences of belief or expression.

-James-

neicy81 - you're correct, black people cannot commit racism on black people, but they can commit racism on other races, white, hispanic, chinese, semetic, indian, etc. I never said anything about racism being only towards black people, that was the impression I got from the other posts.

Honeykiss1974 - I was just making a sarcastic remark where racism, since it's root is race, would be against all races, and blackism (my made up -ism) would be direct discrimination towards black people. It wasn't something to look hard into. Sorry for the confusion.

RUgreek

[QUOTE]Originally posted by neicy81

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek Now looking at your definition of racism, how can blacks commit racism amongst themselves if it is " discriminating or being prejudice to another race "? Maybe I'm just vocab immune?

neicy - I'm having a lot of trouble piecing together some of your previous posts, mostly due to coding, but I think I'm getting caught up in the thread . . .

As far as the above, would you argue that two distinctly-developed cultures, separated geographically, historically, and culturally, are the same 'race'?

I believe in RUgreek's example he was referring to two 'tribal' cultures (hypothetical, I realize, but bear with it) warring on some level, and that this could end in something construed as 'racism' on some level. Without the logical 'leap' as above, I cannot follow how you reach your conclusion. I believe much of the African-American race, for example, is based in common roots, experience, and culture - which seems dissimilar to saying that two differing cultures with the same skin color cannot be racist toward each other. There can arise instances where two races share the same skin color, and dissimilar positions of power, authority, control, abuse, and etc.

I'll agree that specific incidents are extremely insignificant compared to the overriding whole of racism as we know it here in the US (ie the Fallacy of Converse Accident), but I don't think you fully see his point. I will definitely agree with LovelyIvy's point, though, and say that until we have the working definitions that each of us are using for racism, much of this discussion goes nowhere fast.

Okay, so this isn't quite on topic...but the title of the thread is driving me crazy.

Prejudism is NOT a word. Prejudice IS.

*steps off grammar police soapbox*

:)

Neicy, if blacks cannot be racist, what would you call Rev Farrakahn?

Worthless, but that's just my opinion.

An angry black man.

*lol*
:cool:

Someone more familiar with the N.O.I. please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe about 2 or 3 years ago, Farrakan publicly stated that he no longer believes that all non-whites are the "devil", but that he has indeed had a "change of heart" (just like Malcolm X did after his pilgrimage to Mecca) and is no longer affiliated with the N.O.I.

Just an FYI....................................

Ktsnake
 

I agree with Honeykiss. He did renege on his original beliefs but to go back

If racism is discriminating and discrimination is

discrimination

n 1: unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice


then please tell me how he used to treat whites unfair.

I'm actually more concerned with his anti-semantic beliefs as those were MUCH more strongly spoken.

How about the Black Panthers? Aren't they as much anti-white as they are pro-black?

The Black Panthers were never anti-white. The were about eradicating the injustices within black communities.
The BP's never beat whites sensely, lynched someone because they spoke to a white woman, or tied a white up to the back of a truck and dragged him to death. I'll post some more info on them in a sec.

*** EDITTED****

Go to www.blackpanther.org NO WHERE on the site will it say anything like 'I hate whites" or anything like that. I can't say the same for orgs like the NAAWP

Here is what is called their Ten Point Program:

1. We want freedom. We want the power to determine the destinyof our black community

2. We want full employment of our people.

3. We want an end to the robberyof the Capitalist of our black comunity

4. We want decent housing, fit for the shelter of human beings.

5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society.
We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in present day society.

6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.

7. We want an immediate end to Police Brutality and Murder of black people.

8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county, and city prisons and jails.

9. We all black people when brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peer group or people from
their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of The United States.

10. We want land, bread , housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major
political objective, a United Nations supervised pledicite to be held throughout the black colony
in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate, for the purpose of determining
the will of black people as to their national destiny.

Today I attended a conference. The room was evenly divided on bureaucratic stuff. Not that it was unimportant, but it took time away from what was important, i.e. finding a solution. It kind of reminded me of this thread. Which makes me curious, does anyone have any solutions to this issue of prejudice, racism, bigotry, intolerance, and fear? I mean real practical things that we can do to improve this world.

Cream,
Honestly like someone has said earlier, if WE (as people) can't even come to terms as to what is what (in regards to how YOU see racism vs. I see racism), then I can't really answer that question.

Obviously, 30 years of having NOT conversations like this, and just putting on a smile and saying "we are all equal" hasn't worked .

I think one solution is for people to "step outside the box" and just ask questions. For example, (and this is JUST an example) ktsnake asked a question about Black Panthers and I gave him an answer that hopefully will clear up the misconception. Not to say that he will agree with what the BP is all about (I don't necessarily agree with it either - the purpose of asking questions is to gain knowledge, not to agree), but at least now he knows the truth and maybe it will open him up to ask question other things that go on.

the NAAWP is NOT a real organization!!! just because you are an organized group with a website does NOT mean you are legit!!! most white people have never heard of them. :rolleyes:

i'm glad someone else noticed that prejudism is not a real word. it was driving me crazy;)

And God Created Earth! He created Man in the Name of Adam!

Well then he created Eve! Then they ate a damn Apple!
They put on closthes! BOO!

The World Prospered and became Idolitrist!

A Tower was built to reach the Heavens and God!

God was Pissed so destroyed the Tower and turned the Tribes into a differnet group of people (Clans) who spake differnet Languages and were of Differnet Colors! None could understand each other so went their seperate ways to find a life!

Ok if you dont go for that story a how about Monkeys>???

neicey, while I feel you have a valid idea, do not , place us all in the same catagory as you sometimes seem to be doing! We do not hate yyoouu but try to understand what you go on aobut! You fire at everyone on this site no matter who, Black, Red, Yellow, or white!

Rest your self!

What makes an organization "LEGIT", by your standards? :rolleyes:

The NAAWP unfortunately is a group that has actual, educated, everyday people in it who are passionate about their cause. Anyway, i was just using it to compare website rhetoric and nothing more. If you'd like, I'll replace it with the KKK's website, something that we all have heard of.

I was asking a sincere question.
I was about to write a novel of a post as to what I think the problem of racism is and some ways to change the status quo, but I thought that I would get some feedback before I posted.

Honeykiss, How I see racism is probably not that different from how you see racism. Unless you meant 'you' in a general way which I can't tell.

Your ranting and raving doesn't make any sense. I haven't placed anyone into a category.I do have a rebuttal and again that's part of engaging in dialogue in a forum.If it's something I disagree with, do you expect me to stifle my thoughts?? May I suggest you look in a dictionary and find the word forum?Better yet, I'll find it.

Tom Earp
 

A forum is:


1. A public meeting place for open discussion.
2. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.


A rebuttal is :

rebuttal

n 1: the act of refuting by offering a contrary contention or argument



Read it, study it, digest these definitions if you will!

I meant "YOU" and "I" in the general sense, not you personally. :)

Good EXPOSURE to people unlike your kind, IMO, can be a solution. Integration can help if the experience is good, but it can also harm if the experience is bad.

That's what I thought that you meant. :)

You know neicy81,

I don't really give a hoot and holla if you're white, black, male, female, dumb, or smart. You're just a b**ch (or if you prefer an a**hole) for posting an antagonistic reply such as that. Are you trying to create a forum of intellectual debate or just being a snob at people. There are certain ways a person can reply and be respectful, since you don't have the decency for others, I be the first to tell someone off.

If you really believed half the comments about racism that you said, then you could show a little maturity.


Where exactly in that definition does PAST prejudice (or prejudism:D ) come into play? I read unfair treatment of a person, nothing about past unfair treatment. Just because someone like Farrawhozakan is pissed off at white people that doesn't justify his hatred and anti-semetism. I think I'm beginning to understand you're logic: Black people have been wronged for X amount of years which means they earned "Racism points" to redeem on white people for X years, is that what will make you feel better?



(By the way, I know I'm a harsh poster, but please anyone out there that feels offended, try not to, this is a discussion. I have no intentions of offending anyone on a personal level. For some reason, in this day and age, I can't conclude a post without this little blurb, thank you.)


- RUgreek

:eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused:

1) I read all posts, but apparently you don't do enough research before commenting.

2) I don't think posting a dictionary definition does any sort of accomplishment on your side.

3) Farrakhan is not the issue here, but if you will, he still hates Jews.


The issue here is why racism is not something the african-american community can commit on other races.


Discuss...

If you did in fact read all posts, (which you didn't) then you would have known that I've been getting the same nonsense argument from Tom Earp for a while. He stated that I had a rebuttal for everything and I posted the definition of a rebuttal along with a forum so HE would know what the purpose of it is. It accomplished him understanding what a forum consists of.Perhaps you would care to take a look one more time. It hasn't been deleted hun. Also if Farrakhan is not the issue here, then why oh why include him in discussion?

damnit I swear I'm reading everything, now twice... I don't see what you're trying to prove. I can't speak for Tom, but i don't think it takes a genius to understand the definition of words here other than Racism, which is what was being debated, IMO.

If you want Farrakhan (sp?) included in the discussion, that's fine. But the man is brought up not as a topic but an example of racism (er anti-semetism more specifically). But he's not the big problem, getting through this simple problem of understanding what racism is and who is responsible for it should be settled first.

- RUgreek

This is what Tom posted:

"neicey, while I feel you have a valid idea, do not , place us all in the same catagory as you sometimes seem to be doing! We do not hate yyoouu but try to understand what you go on aobut! You fire at everyone on this site no matter who, Black, Red, Yellow, or white! "

Again which is why I gave him the definitions.

Regarding Farrakhan, I never said I DID want him in the discussion. He was mentioned and you can't mention a person as an example without commenting on him at all. Doesn't work like that.