OOPS, Yes there is a differnece in Social Organizations and Non Social Organizations!

Is there a difference whether there is a difference in Service GLOS, Multi Glos, BGLOS or what the ever!

Of course there is! But We who have Greek Letters are thinking of the same thing! The Fraternalism of our organizations!

How we do it may seem different but is it?:confused:

I am a proud member of APO, BU Chapter and a true Brother of LXA!

OOPS, Yes there is a differnece in Social Organizations and Non Social Organizations!

Is there a difference whether there is a difference in Service GLOS, Multi Glos, BGLOS or what the ever!

Of course there is! But We who have Greek Letters are thinking of the same thing! The Fraternalism of our organizations!

How we do it may seem different but is it?:confused:

I am a proud member of APO, BU Chapter and a true Brother of LXA!

More3 times than not, there are3 fewer members of the Social or other types of Ogranizations on Campus if they excist so it is hard to get together with them in a realationship!

I *THOUGHT* that to be considered "greek" on my campus you couldnt "discriminate" or have mandatory qualities in PNMs ... like having to play an instument or major in something specific ...
But what do I know?

<big>ANYWAY

I think they are all greek and my sorority trys to hold events with everyone.

Dude if you pledge I give you credit. ;)

I don't know about you guys, but I would never put my social fraternity over APO, or vice versa. Neither one is better than the other. Social, Service or whatever. I also seen someone post stating that Alpha Phi Omega does not call on it's members to loyal to the brotherhood. I beg to differ. Any member of APO will tell you this. In my chapter, we have members of APO in just about every fraternity and sorority on campus. None of them recognize the social frat/soror before APO or vice versa. Some pledge APO before going social, some pledge after going social....it depends.

I think, although I'm not sure, that for most service and/or music GLOs, you don't have to play an instrument or major in anything specific... I'm in a sorority that was founded as a music GLO (although we now act as a social, but haven't gotten recognition as such by some of the socially-founded GLOs on campus yet... some but not all...) , and I am the most un-musically talented person alive. :) I can't play any instruments or sing for my life! You don't have to be a music major or minor to pledge Delta Omicron or Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia... just have a love for music. I'm not sure about SAI

SAI has the following basic requirements to pledge:
*Cumulative college GPA between 2.5 and 2.9 (individual chapters decide. Also, this means that first semester freshman can't pledge :()
*Previously taken or currently enrolled in at least one college-level music class
*Demonstrate a sincere interest in music

So, besides GPA (which I'm sure every GLO requires) the thing about taking a music class is the only requirement. Clapping for Credit, Marching Band, Music Appreciation, etc. all fulfill this requirement. However, should Susie Baton Twirler rush SAI, she should have an interest in music above just playing the radio. This discussion was recently discussed to death on the SAI listserv - apparently at some chapters they get a lot of auxiliary girls with zero interest in promoting music.

Seems like we covered this early on in this thread, but anyway...

Any guy who has an interest in music is eligible to be considered for probationary membership (pledging) in Phi Mu Alpha. As with any other fraternity, the chapter will decide whether the prospective new member "fits" with the chapter and the Fraternity and exemplifies (or has the potential to exemplify) what we stand for before offering a bid, and will consider these questions again before voting to initiate him. There is no requirement that the prospective member be a music major, a music minor, or even that he has taken or plans to take any music classes. Guys of almost every major can be found in Phi Mu Alpha -- there are Phi Mu Alpha chapters with no music majors in them. Nor is there any requirement that a brother be able to play an instrument or sing, although most probably can. All that is required is that they love music. Love of music and belief in the power of music -- not study of music or preparation and pursuit of careers in music -- is the foundation of our brotherhood.

And again, just for the record, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia is a social fraternity, not a professional fraternity. We were founded in 1898 as a social fraternity. Over the years we veered into the professional fraternity realm, although without ever completely losing hold of our social roots. In the 1980's we made the decision to remove any references to status as a professional fraternity from our governing documents, official communications and the like and to plant our feet solidly back in the social fraternity catagory. Yes, there are some chapters where old habits die hard, but the Fraternity's position is quite clear -- we are not a professional fraternity. FWIW.

As one of these "auxiliary" girls and an alum (and former chapter president!) of a GLO founded in music, I'm curious what the arguments are?

(edited because I just realized that sounded argumentative, which I didn't mean it to be... I'm not in the slightest bit offended or anything...just curious what the different stances are!) :)

FWIW, I too am a former auxiliary girl (and up until last fall, I was an instructor!). I'm not saying you can't be a twirler/flag/pom and not have interest in furthering the cause of music (but I think you already know that). Rather, imagine if a girl on colorguard decided to rush SAI because her friends were in it/it sounded fun/whatever. Ok, that's fine. She gets to rush and discovers that SAI members spend much of their time on music related things, although there are other things too. Turns out she's only interested in "the other things" and not at all interested in the recitals, philanthropies, projects, etc. If this person has NO interest in the purposes of SAI, then she would probably be happier elsewhere. Does that make sense?

Well, that's kind of what I was wondering... (and I apologize, I thought you were using the word "auxilliary" in the sense of "extra"... I didn't realize you were referring to an activity! although I was a pom girl :))

I guess what I'm wondering is, I didn't have any interest in recitals, etc. but I pledged DO because a) they had rush before NPC, so they were my first Greek experience and b) I fit in well with the group. When it came to the music related philanthropies, I helped of course, but I would have been just as happy to do a Make a Wish Foundation philanthropy or a Humane Society philanthropy, etc. I tried to organize things like that while I was active, but it was rather frowned upon by the NPC greeks, and never went through.

In the long run? Perhaps I would have been happier elsewhere. I wish I could have been part of an NPC sorority, it probably would have been a better fit for me. But I don't think that means I was any less of a sister, that my heart was any less in it, that I had any less devotion to my sorority and my sisters just because I don't live and die for music....

I'm starting to agree w/ some people about service/music GLO's not being "real", in regards of sisterhood/brotherhood.

I kinda had trouble bonding with my ex-sisters, b/c I wouldn't open up. But, here in this service GLO, it is 100X as hard to bond w/ my brothers, and I DID open up some this time. I am also picking up this up in some of the other members. In other words, the closeness that I feel in this service GLO doesn't even come close to the closeness I felt in the social one. The fraternal feel just ain't there.

Please my fellow brothers, correct me if I am wrong, it may just be a chapter problem.

You can't judge all non-social GLOs by your own experience! Yes, I would definately say it's a chapter problem because my sisters are my sisters; there is a definate bond. HOw on earth can you say that the sister/brotherhood of these GLOs isn't "real"? Because we aren't social? Because we have a different focus? Our bond is just as strong as the bond in a social GLO, it's just a DIFFERENT bond. Our chapters tend to be smaller(my chapter has 10), and the majority of us are either music majors or very involved in the music department, so we are constantly bumping into each other! :)

That's my two cents.

I can't speak to any GLO except my own, but I can say without reservation that the bonds of brotherhood among brothers in FMA are as strong as in any other social GLO I have run across. Even back in the days when Sinfonia was classified as a professional rather than a social fraternity, the difference in brotherhood between Sinfonians on one hand and members of other professional GLO's was noticable, at least on my campus. They acted more like clubs. We were (and are) a true brotherhood.

As with any GLO, there may be some chapters where this is not true, and as with any GLO, these are the chapters that are in trouble in general. But as a whole, we take brotherhood very seriously; it's fundamental to our whole reason for existence. We don't just call each other "brothers," nor do we just talk about brotherhood -- we foster it, we live it, and we cherish it.

And that's my 2 cents.

I hate to seem mean. But it seems more like you are trying to prove a point to those of us who are in a social GLO. You want to be seen as a fellow greek and a peer. But Honorary GLOs and social GLOs are 2 different beasts. They both have similarities, yet, we both also have differences. If I may so kindly offer some advice, don't try to argue your point to people who are deeply rooted in their ideas, b/c you won't change any minds. If anything you will make people more stuborn, angry, and even resentful of you.

The debate isn't between honorary and social GLOs, which are very different from each other.

You don't seem mean at all, PSK480 -- you just appear not to have read the thread. I don't think anyone ever said anything about honorary GLO's. The gist of this thread has concerned what might be called "special interest" GLO's -- primarily the music GLO's, some of which are classified professional fraternities and some of which are classified as social fraternities -- and the service GLO's like AFW or GSS.

Gee, I wish someone had told me that before I went to law school. Here I was thinking that discussion, debate and even argument can be tools to help people understand one another better and {gasp} maybe even change their minds -- provided, of course, that the minds in question are open, even if just a little. ;)

At my school we have 1300 students, 10% Greek participation (that's IFC/Panhel, those who are registered with the Greek Advisor), 5 IFC fraternities, and 3 NPC sororities, as well as chapters of SAI and Sinfonia. It's not the IFC/Panhel Greeks who exclude SAI and Sinfonia. It's they who alienate themselves from us. SAI's really much worse about it than Sinfonia.

It's common knowledge on our campus about the SAI/Sinfonia single sex Title IX social thingie... common knowledge amongst IFC/Panhel, that is. SAI/Sinfonia deny it. They insist that they're "professional" and therefore are far superior to us social groups.

For choir concerts, where we are to wear black with "tasteful" jewelry, most GLO members wear their badges. I was asked to take mine off. I said that I would only if the SAI members had to as well, and this caused a big row. (I won when a Delta Gamma who's also an SAI said that she thought it ridiculous that she had to take off her anchor but could leave her SAI badge, and that she wouldn't wear one without the other.) The prejudice against members of sororities in particular at the Conservatory of Music is extreme and unreasonable. The only way a member of an NPC group can redeem herself is to also join SAI.

SAI schedules its recruitment meetings during our Formal Recruitment parties. Their "dirty rushing" is far worse than any NPC group on campus. SAI's go around trashing NPC groups, telling freshmen before our deferred FR that they shouldn't join a social sorority, but a Professional Fraternity. They rip our signs down or put theirs up over ours. They schedule events on top of ours. We've invited them to do mixers with us, which they decline because they're not social. This year IFC/Panhel asked SAI and Sinfonia to join in Greek Week (which, btw, is a free event at our school). Delta Gamma invited them to have teams for Anchor Splash (on our campus, everyone from GLO's to athletic teams to dorms have Anchor Splash teams). Each declined, turned up their collective noses, and said, "We're not Greek. We're not social." We've extended the olive branch to them many times and they've declined.

The funny thing is... I went to SAI/Sinfonia formal with a Sinfonian this winter. Whereas our formals are either dry or the alcohol consumption is closely monitored, theirs was sodden with liquor. Everyone was drunk, including many underage people. I was ignored by most SAI's all night. Another Kappa sister with a Sinfonian date had the same problem. I've never felt so uncomfortable in a group in my life. To top that, SAI has 5 times the membership of Kappa and at least double the membership of other NPC chapters on campus [see my other postings for more about my chapter's membership struggles]. However, we get 5 times as much stuff done as they do. We contribute more dollars and hours to philanthropy and have an overall higher GPA.

The sad thing is that many of our newest members have friends who went SAI and they would make fabulous Kappas. Ditto for the other groups on campus. We could do much better for both groups, NPC's and SAI, if we'd join forces and not wage war on each other all the time. I guess the most we can do is keep trying. A lot of the SAI's who are the "worst" in this regard have graduated or will be this year, so perhaps we'll be able to change attitudes.

I'm sorry I should hav clarified. I was responding to SAIRose's original post. On my campus SAI is seen as an honorary, just like TBS, and Kappa Kappa Psi. Where they do not report to either PanHell or IFC. Yet, Phi Mu Alpha on the other hand is grouped with social because they are members of the campus IFC. So, to me they are most special interest GLOs are honorary b/c they act as ones at my university. I was speaking from my own experience from my university.

I have little experience with SAI (we didn't have a chapter at my school when I was there), so I'll limit more or less my response to Phi Mu Alpha. What you describe isn't necessarily common or the rule across the country, but it isn't uncommon either -- unfortunately.

Phi Mu Alpha's history has given it what might be termed something of an identity crisis. It was founded as a social fraternity for musicians , who often were at schools (primarily conservatories) where there were not any students of other disciplines or where interaction with students of other disciplines was limited.

Over the years, the fraternity moved more into the "professional" arena. We helped form the Professional Fraternity Association and called ourselves "The Professional Fraternity for Men in Music." This was partly due to the demographics of the fraternity -- many if not most members, and all national leadership were professional musicians -- and partly, as the 60's and 70's with their anti-establishment atmosphere approached, as a result of the belief that the fraternity would only survive if it differentiated itself from social fraternities. I think many today would say that those who took us down that road meant well, but moved us away from our roots and the basis of our brotherhood.

In the 80's, the National Assembly of Phi Mu Alpha made the decision to officially return to social status. As you note, it was the desire to remain single sex that spurred this decision. But the decision would not have been made, I don't think, if many brothers -- particularly collegiate brothers -- had not felt that we really were truly social, that professional classification did not fit us. The fact is that we had always had more in common with social fraternities than with professional fraternities. Title IX was the excuse to move us back where many thought we belonged.

Some old habits die hard, though. Some chapters still refer to Sinfonia as a "professional fraternity," even when Nationial says "no we're not." Barriers built by years of separation from other GLO's campus are not broken down overnight. Some Sinfonia chapters have been on their campuses longer than other social GLO's because they were chartered when their schools only allowed professional GLO's (and when Sinfonia was classified as "professional"). Some chapters have a true superiority complex such as you describe -- "we're not like other fraternities." (I notice in another post you commented that yours is a fairly anti-Green campus. Perhaps that contributes to the unfortunate "we're not really Greek" attitude.) The fact that many music schools/departments still maintain some distance from the rest of the school doesn't help. I think such chapters are shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of attitude.

Elsewhere, however, chapters are joining their campus's IFC's (like at PSK480's school -- and sorry PSK480 if I came on too strong on my response to you) and are participating fully in their school's Greek life. Reports are that, as a general rule, such chapters are finding that their recruitment and chapter life otherwise is improving as a result. My understanding is that National is actively considering joining the NIC.

Yes, I guess we would be a special interest social GLO, much like Triangle, Farmhouse, AGR, or SA. But unlike some of those groups, we do not limit membership to students in any particular majors -- you just have to love music.

The bottom line is what has been said in this thread quite a few times by quite a few people: Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity. On some campuses, its chapters particpate fully in social Greek life, on other campuses, they don't. Some chapters are still stuck in the 1970's. Some chapters want to get out of the 70's but haven't figured out how yet. So whether Sinfonians would be "honestly considered fellow Greeks" by NIC, NPC, or NPHC groups will depend on the specific campus in question.

Sorry to run on so long. Good luck at your school this year, hope things look up for Kappa (cheers to Kappa -- Ms. MysticCat is one) and for Sinfonia!

Thanks for the insight into Phi Mu Alpha, MysticCat81 (and lots of Kappa love to Mrs. MysticCat81). I'm going to suggest to our social chair (who happens to be one of my lovely little sisses) that we do our best to involve Phi Mu Alpha more this coming year.

My question for you RedRose, DZSAI, and all other wearers of the Pipes of Pan out there on GC is this:

Both my chapter and campus Panhellenic would love to welcome SAI into more of an involvement with Panhel. (Note: we in no way wish to force them into membership of our campus panhellenic or bind them to our rules. We just want peace.) We really feel that we'd be stronger if we shared in each other's membership pools. Besides, there's really no reason to be at war with each other. Since women can be members of both, we shouldn't be competing. Does that make sense? How would you suggest that we go about bringing them into the Greek community?

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Here's a thought or two for you as a starting place, KappaKittyCat. Thanks to my contacts with Ms. MysticCat, I know that Kappa's Founders' Day (October 13) is exactly one week after ours (October 6). Some of you Kappas already seem to have some connection with Sinfonians if you went to their formal. Why don't you see if they'd like to have a social marking the respective 132nd and 104th birthdays? For something more philanthropical, ask if they plan to mark Founder's Day with a Mills Music Mission (a visit to a hospital, nursing home, or somewhere similar to sing, bring flowers, and visit). If they do, see if you can join them. Phi Mu Alpha encourages chapters to invite other Greek groups to participate in these.

Good luck!

Okay, I think I just came up with a relevant analogy, when it comes to social vs. special interest GLO's.

Men and woman are in some ways, the same. In other ways they are different. But, both want to be seen as EQUAL, hence the differences.

to KappaKittyCat
 

KappaKittyCat, I have PM'd you! :D

To answer your question about how we can connect SAI and the NPC's...I don't know that I am the best person to ask.

At my school (I graduated in May) the SAI chapter is pretty much the same size as the NPC chapter total on our campus. There were only 3 of us who were members of an NPC sorority. Also, 90% of our chapter was comprised of music majors. With such high music major numbers, most of the chapter is REALLY overprogrammed already. Honestly, I don't know how I did music, DZ, SAI, taught lessons, had a relationship, etc. So the SAI's promote themselves by saying that we are mostly music majors, so we are more lenient with your commitments, we don't fine, etc. This leniency makes music major girls more likely to pledge SAI than an NPC since they are convinced they will not be able to miss things for their musical engagements (um...it's school...of course they would let you miss!). Also, since there are so many music majors in it, they feel exclusive because they have that common bond, plus, at our school the music department had a new, sparkling building complete with a large lounge and kitchen area, so there was no reason for those girls to ever leave and make friends on campus!

We social greeks did reach out to SAI (through those of us who were dual members). We invited them to do philanthropies, etc. just as others have mentioned. PMA and SAI actually participated in pushball the SECOND year we asked them after refusing the first year. That was a step.

I always told people "Sorority rush is starting soon, so if you are interested, I have applications...If you have any questions, feel free to ask". So they knew they were welcome to rush. So it wasn't that they didn't know about it. They also did not want to pay high dues. Dues for the entire semester at my chapter of SAI were $30. Of course, we never DID anything since there was never enough money, but there was never enough money 'cause nobody would vote to increase dues. So money can be an issue too.

I feel like I am rambling now. But I think maybe in my mixed up words you can find some sort of explanation as to why SAI chapters self exclude, or at least why the members of my chapter did, even though I tried to bridge the gap.

Oh, and I won't even lie...PMA at my school tries to act like they are what they "think" a social is, but seclude themselves because I handed them a campus hazing policy one semester and told them to cool it...That is one dangerous thing about this seclusion issue. The spotlight is always on social greeks, so by separating yourself, you can get away with way more shady stuff, which is what they do. I feel a slight bit of guilt for outing them like that, but...

For SAIRose
 

I'm putting this at the beginning b/c it's the crux of my post:
For a "Real Life Example", I know ASU has a 1-A football team, and so does Notre Dame or U. of Michigan, but I don't see us as equals, (I doubt anyone does :D ) but I know we're both football teams!

Hey SAIRose,
I'm catching on to this thread late, so I hope you catch this one. I wanted to address this b/c I'm from your campus.

I do not consider us the different or the same. I don't consider this good or bad, necessarily. I guess I live in my own bubble, which consists of NPC, NPHC, and IFC groups. The 6 years I've been here at ASU, that is what I've known. I have seen SAI stuff in the FA building, but I always assumed it was an honorary org. b/c the two girls I know that are in it were Music majors (I think. I know they were something related to music)

Even further, until I got on this greekchat board, I never even considered that GLO's that were non NPC, NPHC, or IFC would consider themselves like us. I was "enlightened" to the fact that org's like yours related to us.

So what does that mean when it comes to your question? I guess it means that I have not considered your org as a fellow greek, but only because I do not have contact with your org in the way I have contact with the 8 frats, 4 other sororities, and the 9 NPHC orgs. (like dropins, philanthropic events, RUSH Homecoming, Greek week, etc.) If you were to participate in things like this with me, I would consider you as a fellow greek.

That being said, I still consider you a greek organization. I was not aware until this thread that you have recruitment, pledging, etc. That's because I thought your org. was honorary. If you look in ASU's undergrad bulletin, you would see that SAI, PMA, etc. are listed as honorary/professional orgs. Phi Mu, KA, AKA, etc. are listed as Social Orgs.

But I've read most, but not all, of this thread, and I found the point made that ya'll aren't under our umbrella-org's (NPC). One of the NPC rules is that you can't be in more than one. So that, by nature, makes us competitive in spirit. Since your org. isn't in that "competition," I don't see it as the same. SEE REAL LIFE EXAMPLE AT BEGINNING

As far as people treating you as lesser than us, I hope that wasn't the case for any of my girls, let alone any "Greek" on campus. I personally don't consider anyone that has the gumption to get out there, find a group that they relate to, take pride in it, and have a hell of a time doing it, as lesser. I applaud anyone that does it! What else is this life for? But I wonder, would any of you on campus consider also joining one of our social orgs? If not, does that mean that you perceive our org's as different?

Lord, I'll keep going unless I stop. Basically SAIRose, I am glad that you have found the sisterhood you have. I think it's cool as hell, and I would never degrade it intentionally, and hopefully, never unintentionally. Some of us are just naive, I guess.

I can safely say that the SAI chapter at my school is definitely not the same as NPC sororities.. But not so different either.

They have certain ummm practices that would threaten the charter of an NPC org (my friend's wife pledged and I know a little of what goes on there).

Their biggest recruiters are teachers in the music department.... And I don't know of a single person that is in both a regular sorority and SAI... I don't think they necessarily bill themselves as the "anti-sorority" -- but music majors up til recently have not been greek... PKA somehow bridged that gap though on the men's side.

Yes they're Greek (if that's what you call yourself than who am I to say otherwise?)... But Greek in the same sense that I am, I'd say not.

Re: For SAIRose
 

So what does that mean when it comes to your question? I guess it means that I have not considered your org as a fellow greek, but only because I do not have contact with your org in the way I have contact with the 8 frats, 4 other sororities, and the 9 NPHC orgs. (like dropins, philanthropic events, RUSH Homecoming, Greek week, etc.) If you were to participate in things like this with me, I would consider you as a fellow greek.

That being said, I still consider you a greek organization. I was not aware until this thread that you have recruitment, pledging, etc. That's because I thought your org. was honorary. If you look in ASU's undergrad bulletin, you would see that SAI, PMA, etc. are listed as honorary/professional orgs. Phi Mu, KA, AKA, etc. are listed as Social Orgs.

I think that is a very good point! Most people assume that because we are an academic fraternity, that we are honorary and do not have ritual, pledging, etc. I think this is part of why many don't consider us "greek".

As far as people treating you as lesser than us, I hope that wasn't the case for any of my girls, let alone any "Greek" on campus.
No, no Phi Mu has ever said anything negative about SAI(not to my face, anyways :) ) Unfortunately, a few Greeks on campus did treat us as lesser...as far as which group, I won't tell so I won't get myself in trouble. :D

I personally don't consider anyone that has the gumption to get out there, find a group that they relate to, take pride in it, and have a hell of a time doing it, as lesser. I applaud anyone that does it!

Very well put. We work hard, we have common bonds, and we love our GLO.

What else is this life for? But I wonder, would any of you on campus consider also joining one of our social orgs? If not, does that mean that you perceive our org's as different?

I think it depends on the member. One of our members in fact used to be a Phi Mu...we also had a member who is now a Phi Mu but who is inactive with SAI. I myself had considered joining a social sorority, but couldn't afford it, and didn't have the time for 2 GLOs. But yes, I would say some SAIs would consider joining both, however, most of our members don't. We consider social GLOs "different" in some respects--you don't have an academic base, your dues cost more, you do more activities, etc. However, we consider you all much the same--you have ritual, rush, pledging, big and lil sisters, etc etc. If you go in Zues' Place you'll find our merchandise on the same shelves. So we consider ourselves to be different and also the same.


Lord, I'll keep going unless I stop. Basically SAIRose, I am glad that you have found the sisterhood you have. I think it's cool as hell, and I would never degrade it intentionally, and hopefully, never unintentionally. Some of us are just naive, I guess. [/B][/QUOTE]

Re: Re: For SAIRose
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sairose

I think it depends on the member. One of our members in fact used to be a Phi Mu...we also had a member who is now a Phi Mu but who is inactive with SAI. I myself had considered joining a social sorority, but couldn't afford it, and didn't have the time for 2 GLOs. But yes, I would say some SAIs would consider joining both, however, most of our members don't. We consider social GLOs "different" in some respects--you don't have an academic base, your dues cost more, you do more activities, etc. However, we consider you all much the same--you have ritual, rush, pledging, big and lil sisters, etc etc. If you go in Zues' Place you'll find our merchandise on the same shelves. So we consider ourselves to be different and also the same.



I know of 2 girls that would have probably been in SAI and Phi Mu. (Emily and Audra) I really liked both of them, and I wish they were still Phi Mu's. I guess in their case they liked their other activities (probably SAI included) more than us. I am wondering, though, who is the Phi Mu that is inactive in SAI? That perked my interest.

I've got to mention, though, that the NPC sororities on our campus, all have over a 3.0 gpa. (between 3.012 and 3.42!!) This is with groups ranging from 30-100 women! We are very academically based, but we aren't related to one field of study.

I have seen your stuff in Zeus's Place, along with the other special interest GLO's. More power to ya. It doesn't bother me at all to see your letters on campus. But now I'll be making a point to find out more about yall! ;)

Re: Re: Re: For SAIRose
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bets

Quote:

Originally posted by sairose I know of 2 girls that would have probably been in SAI and Phi Mu. (Emily and Audra) I really liked both of them, and I wish they were still Phi Mu's. I guess in their case they liked their other activities (probably SAI included) more than us. I am wondering, though, who is the Phi Mu that is inactive in SAI? That perked my interest.

Yes, I was talking about Emily and Audra. Isn't Emily still a Phi Mu? I thought she was...I really like her. I used to go to her church. I don't really know why Audra isn't still a Phi Mu; I haven't heard her say much about Phi Mu except that they have a really pretty badge, and maybe a few other random things.

Quote:

I've got to mention, though, that the NPC sororities on our campus, all have over a 3.0 gpa. (between 3.012 and 3.42!!) This is with groups ranging from 30-100 women! We are very academically based, but we aren't related to one field of study.

I never thought of that before, but you have a point! :) And don't y'all have study hall for new members and things like that? I guess in some respects then, social GLOs ARE very academic. Thanks for pointing that out! :)

Quote:

I have seen your stuff in Zeus's Place, along with the other special interest GLO's. More power to ya. It doesn't bother me at all to see your letters on campus. But now I'll be making a point to find out more about yall! ;)

Hey, I think that's really great! I get frustrated by the lack of support that some people have for groups on campus like Sigma Alpha Iota and Tau Beta Sigma. It's refreshing to have someone back us up in our efforts. :) If you want to learn more about SAI, go to the national page at http://www.sai-national.org or to our chapter site at http://www.geocities.com/sai_epsilongamma

Thanks for the support. I hope in the future, more SAI greeks can consider us as a fellow Greek. :)

I'm sorry but I have to say that I consider the non social "greeks" not to be affiliated directly with the greek system. We have several of those non social groups at my school and nobody ever hears from them or anythign about them basically. I would have never known they existed if i hadn't stumbled over their website on my college's home page. If they chose to be more social I think people would give them more of a chance. :rolleyes:

~Rebecca


"It's a PHI SIG thing!"

About Emily
 

Sairose, I'm pm you about this.

Hmmm, well yes and no.

Phi Mu Alpha is huge at my school. It's older than any of the social greek organizations, and it has a really strong and steadfast brotherhood. Although they are a professional music fraternity, they are also very social. They have their own house, and hold parties throughout the year, as well as mixers with other greek organizations. (We had a pirate mixer with them last fall... they serenaded us at the end. I thought it was the sweetest thing!) SAI has only been around since for about 10-20 years. I think they still do social things, but I don't see them nearly as much as the Phi Mu Alphas.

The only reason why I am reluctant to classify them as "real" greeks is because they are not members of NPC/IFC/NPHC. So they're not listed on the rush booklets sent out to incoming freshmen, and rush separately. There are many other greek-letter honor societies and professional/interest groups, and in my opinion, this is the category into which the music fraternities best fit.

Social Fraternity
 

Orchid2,
We are currently making advances at the National Level to become members of the NIC. Additionally, we're registered with the US Government as an official "Social" fraternity. We are not limited to music majors nor minors. We have brothers in all walks of life. Fraternally, Mystic Cat32

Orchid2, the Phi Mu Alpha chapter at your school is not (it seems this can't be said enough) a professional music fraternity -- as a Fraternity, we officially and definitively decided not to be a professional fraternity almost 20 years ago. Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity for men (regardless of major or career plans) who have a special interest in music. In this regard, it is probably more akin to Triangle, Alpha Gamma Rho, or Farmhouse then to professional fraternities.

As for IFC membership, as has been said above, many Sinfonia chapters have joined their chapter's IFCs, and so far as I have heard, have found the results from doing that to be very positive. Perhaps the chapter at your school should be encouraged to consider it. Someone at National could probably give them some guidance.

I know I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll try to keep quiet on this subject for a while. :cool:

BTW, where are you in school? I'm really glad to hear that the chapter there is so strong.

One of the challenges of the last few decades for Phi Mu Alpha has been the whole professional/social thing. An even bigger one has been elimination of hazing -- something that historically we have had a real problem with. A great deal of progress has made, but there are still some chapters that seem unwilling to get with the program. Frankly, I think this may well be a reason that some chapters try to perpetuate their seclusion, as you call it. Believe me -- you shouldn't feel any guilt for "outing" them. Just tell yourself that you are trying to help them live up to what Sinfonia stands for.

Maybe some confusion stems from Phi Mu Alpha belonging to PFA (Professional Fraternty Assn.) instead of NIC at the national level. Once you are members of NIC and require all your chapters to be members of the campus Interfraternity Conference, the identity confusion will probably go away.

I stand corrected! Sorry about that, MysticCat81... thats just what I've always heard and assumed. Anyway, I go to Jacksonville State in Alabama.

I agree with what Carnation and 33girl have said.
My roommate my freshman yr was in Kappa Kappa Psi. I know that they did big/little and had a retreat, but that is all I heard. I never heard of them doing any service projects, sisterhood/brotherhoods and I never saw them wear letters, so I guess I would not consider them Greek(WAIT BEFORE GETTING UPSET) since they did not do the typical greek things, that does not mean they care less, it just means they weren't well known on campus and social GLO would not hang out with them as a group to do socials with-- I am not saying we wouldn't hang out with them bc they were in band.:confused:

APO asks its members to make a life time committement to service and APO. We take an oath of loyalty and service during our Induction as a Brother. We do not ask that people put APO before other associations or committements.

Re: Social Fraternity
 

Ok, so I've been dying to reply to this topic for a loooong time! :) SAI, I believe (correct if I'm wrong, ladies), is registered with the government as a social fraternity for women, as well. Wouldn't we have to be? Maybe something came up on the listserve a while ago about this? Either way, we would have to be registered as "social" to be exempt from the fact that we do not allow men to join.

SAI also is not limited to music majors or minors. One of the qualifications to be a member is to have a "sincere interest in music." At one time, we had a sister in our chapter who used to play an instrument but at the collegiate level, was in colorguard. As far as all that goes, we only require that a person must have had one music class (band, history, etc.) to join.

My chapter (that I will be going back to in the spring!) does have big and little sisters. We wear letters on campus, we do service projects, we do fundraising projects, we have social events with Phi Mu Alpha . . . Just like with every GLO, our letters mean something. I guess you could also (kinda) categorize us with the men-folk in saying that we are like AGR or Farmhouse or even Phi Mu Alpha.

I do agree with sairose, though, when she said she felt like the other social glo's at her school do not feel SAI's are "really Greek." We do want to get involved on campus (at least my chapter does) and, for the most part, we do want the same type of recognition that social glo's get. Granted, there are some girls who say they join because "it's the non-sorority sorority." But we are still proud of our letters and proud of everything SAI stands for.

In saying all of this, I would like to add that I'm not trying to offend anyone or attack anyone. Three of my SAI sisters are in a social GLO. I, myself, was going to join a social GLO but there was a huge mix-up with my transfer status and, well, it just didn't work out. We love all of our sisters dearly ... may not always agree with them, but that's ok! ANYWAY!, please don't take offense to my post; those are just my feelings on SAI and that's all! :) :D :D :D :)