This reflects a difference in culture between HWGLOs and HBGLOs. The latter typically don't "colonize," that is, do on a campus to stir up interest to start a chapter. It usually starts with an interest group on campus that reaches out to the org. There is the idea, deeply ingrained in HBGLOs, that you don't recruit. The rush process is looked upon with disdain in D0 circles,as being akin to a cattle call and more like a mass marketing campaign whish ends up with lukewarm members who quit and de-pledge if they don't like someone or something in the group, like it's a junior high social club. In BGLOs, as perceptions and expectations go, to consider "pledging" is a very serious matter, akin to getting married or making a religious commitment. And frankly,many are scared to do so. The fact that in many places chapter sizes are small is interpreted as sign of selctivity and the difficulty of attaining membership.

Of course this is a sterotype but in all stereotypes there's a grain of truth,and sometimes more than that. The point I want to make is that caucasian members of HWGLOs should allow themselves the opportunity to think outside of their frame of reference in order to drop the unwitting cultural superiority of their take on Greekdom. You may learn something helpful;and, by the way, I do think this goes the other way to.


It interests me that I don't hear the question posed the other way around:in an era of cultural pluralism where there are no "HWGLOs" and everyone should be free to join whatever GLO they want without fear of social intimidation by peers,etc., why don't more whites pledge HBGLOs? Why is that?

If the organization is not reaching out and "recruiting" them, then how would they know that they would be wanted as members?

Because NPHC orgs don't "recruit".

Of course there are always exceptons to the rules but I read the recriutment threads and many girls including legacies don't get their first choice...all I'm saying is that most members of BGLOs only have 1 choice that they will accept...

To Tom Earp...I don't think there is a need for more D9 orgs....I believe most who are interested willl find an org within the 9 that they feel drawn to or will possibly look at the other options outside of NPHC...

it's two different cultures that make it different.

Again, back to the question that I answered: how would they know they could join if no one was asking them to? That's most likely why more "white" (cringes at using that label) people don't join traditionally African American GLOs.

It's kind of a two way street. The aspirant has to want the org just as much as the org wants the aspirant. I actually went through the IFC rush process at my school (very informal, lots of debauchery involved) and soon came to realize that there didn't seem to be anything personal that was wanted out of me besides raising the number of people in the pledge class and getting a fat check for my membership. Some of the orgs were full of good guys, but I'm not too sure if they knew I was a good guy. Before being given the priveledge of trying to become an Alpha, I learned that I had to seek out membership. The bruhs were going to be there, but they were only going to help me if I was willing to help myself in the process. That's the way they treat everybody, regardles of race.

You'll just have to be offended. I didn't say that you didn't do any of the things you mentioned, you just got all hissy at what you THOUGHT I said.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about: As a child, I attended academic programs sponsored by AKA and DST. My friends participated in Kappa League. I had teachers who wore para ever chance they got. During AIDS walk and March of Dimes, I saw members of all 9 NPHC orgs. When I volunteered at the hospital and the homeless shelter, I did so alongside NPHC members.

My point is that NPHC orgs are extremely visible in the African-American community. So by the time most African-American students make it to college, they have at least a passing knowledge of these orgs and what they do in the community. To be honest with you, I had never heard of any NPC sororities until my sophmore year of college. I didn't get any info about rush my freshman year (maybe cause I'm black? :confused: ). But then again, you don't see me on GC talking about how much "better" the NPHC is than NPC/NIC the way some others do...

But the thing is, we're not hurting for members. And we aren't having emergency meetings to solve the crisis of why their aren't more White members. The fact of the matter is that one of the reasons why NPHC orgs were founded was to better and uplift the African-American community. Do you know a lot of White people who are devoted to that cause?

The way you are explaining your GLO experience is exactly the way I feel about mine. I think it has to do with the Greek culture at the school, and where the school is. I know that NPC sororities have what is called "Formal Recruitment," as opposed to "rush," so it is can be a lot more serious than most fraternity "rushes." It might be time for IFC fraternities to streamline their recruitment processes and adopt a more formal way of finding members. Sometimes, they can get out of hand--one fraternity on my campus had a cigars and bourbon night for recruiting members, which I found tasteless and completely playing into the stereotype that all fraternity members are brainless binge drinkers.

good god

what do you propose?

Yes, I actually do know a lot of "white" people that are dedicated to the cause of uplifting African American communities. I worked for a group called the "Breakthrough Collaborative," (http://www.summerbridge.org/) where high schoolers and college students (of ALL races, creeds, and backgrounds) taught in high-need communities and encouraged students in these areas (predominantly African Americans) to stay in school to better themselves, as well as help others in their own communities through service in their own cities and towns.

Also, who said that any one was having emergency meetings about not having more minority members? I also didn't hear any one saying they were hurting for members, either--I know my own organization has over 180,000 members.

I am not speaking for my entire GLO, I am only stating my own opinion--I wish that some of the women I knew in college would have joined my organization despite it's not being a traditionally "Black" GLO.

That's cute, but there's a lot more to being devoted to uplifting the African-American community than giving kids the "stay in school" speech.

I don't propose anything--I simply don't like labels, in general. I don't think the words "white" and "black" fully encompass all that people are.

And there's a lot more to the organization than that, I was simply paraphrasing a tiny snippet of what the group does. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so condescending.

They don't but they have to WANT to become a Que,Nupe, Alpha,Sigma,Iota. Look,this is the same for black aspirants also. They have to intentionally go and talk to and build a relationship with members of the chapter. In this way a they get to know each other and one gets a better idea if this is really what they want to do. It's not normally done on a lark.If you become a member of a HBGLO it is a very intentional journey which one undertook at some point.

A brother in my grad chapter was talking and told me jokingly that once he told someone he wanted to pledge Omega (he is a legacy), Omega brothers started to "haze" him.

I understand what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification!!! :)

ok.

now i'm confused as to the point you're trying to make. are you saying that everyone should recruit everyone and we should be all one big happy family?

I suppose I am. Then we should all sing "Koombaya," hold hands, and pretend that nothing bad ever happened to any minorities in this country. Of course I'm not saying that! I'm just saying that I would like to see more inclusiveness across the board. Of course no one should just recruit everyone or anyone--all GLOs want people that will help them strengthen their organization. I'm just saying that it might not be a bad thing to look beyond skin color.

that's all well and good, but for people of color, race isn't something that can be turned on and off.

And I never said it could be. I am very well aware of this fact.

then your dream will never occur on a large scale level

The majority of white people will never understand or even try to show empathy for the black experience in America. Partially the responsibility is on our culture because of an under current of race, economics, and sexism that has ruled north america for well over 500 years. As a nupe I can identify with the struggle of what the word really means. Kappa Alpha Psi does have white members but these members respect the importance of our heritage and embrace our ideals within the fraternity and the African American Community. Typically these "white" brothers are submerged and fascinated with black culture. Most black people embrace these types of whites but we diss these types of blacks.

White people for the most part will accept a black person who doesn't fit the BET/MTV stereotype. There is a degree of separation in both examples because they will always be people who notice the skin tone before they notice whether a person lives the values of their organization or if this person really fits into the culture of the group. Our generation now and before us labled blacks as sell outs while the whites were labeled nigger lovers or white trash. This will never be an easy topic but should it be? Joining an organization is a personal choice that includes a commitment to upholding the core values. All of us lacking in our commitment to service to humanity (WGLO/BGLO) if we aren't cross referencing ideas that will make our communities at large a better place.

Of course it may not--we don't live in a perfect world. That doesn't mean I can't seek the higher things. We are imperfect beings, but should we not at least try to make life better for all?

Well-said. I second this!

Co-signing
 

Sounding like THE Furious Styles himself. :)

I second this. :o

Can't we just delete this thread? Some GCers are a little naive and stupid when they first sign on....

I hope everyone on here is reading this thread because it is definitely excellent!!! :D

Were you posting for entertainment or to actual discuss the topic?

I fail to see how discussing legitimate societal issues is stupid. :confused:

Obviously if you were reading my comments you would know the answer to that question.

Some schools are just really bad about getting information out about their recruitment. I sincerely hope it wasn't due to your skin color.

I'm not saying anything about racism, but the truth is that many fraternities do look at minorities and assume that they wouldn't even be interested in the first place, which that is not always the case. I know it goes both ways too, because unless someone who wasn't black really stood out at a lot of black fraternities they probably would be written off as someone who wasn't that fraternities material either.

I mean Kathy, can you honestly say that a black person with a strong ethnic upbringing, someone truly conscious about who they and their ancestors are and had much pride, but at the same time was a true lady about it would have the slightest chance of "fitting in" with your sorority??

I'm so glad I found the right fraternity on campus (which isn't black either) otherwise I possibly wouldn't have pledged for anything.

Yeah, I feel ya on that.;)

WGLO:p

Amen. Preach Brother! Preach!:D

The fact is that at PWIs (yes, I said it) the overall population of Blacks tends to be small, esp at private colleges. The percentage of that population that is even interested will be smaller, the percentage that qualify will be smaller still, the percentage that apply will be smaller than that, then the percentage that will actually cross/join will be even smaller. This already small population to begin with leads to small chapters. That being said, there are membership minimums that must be met in order to sustain a chapter. Often times these minimums are not sustainable.

In addition, as previously mentioned, the majority of us in NPHC orgs know which organization we want to join BEFORE rush (sometimes are early as middle school). With our orgs, as a general practice, we don't just join whichever one gives us a 'bid'. It is frowned upon to actively pursue more than one NPHC org; I am not saying it happens, but it can reflect badly on an interest. So if I want to join Delta but there is no Delta chapter on campus, I would not join AKA just because they are on campus, I will wait for Delta even if it means joining an alumnae chapter. So you take that population of interests mentioned above and whittle it even further to exclude those whose org of choice is not on campus (not chartered, died out, suspended, etc.) then you have an even smaller population still.

Now take California and Proposition 29 which dramatically decreased the already small number of Blacks in the public university system and the target population is small to begin with.

Here are some examples for those who need the visual:

- PWI University has a population of 1000 students, 7% of which are Black and 10% of which are other minority (Hispanic, Asian, etc.) leaving 83% Caucasian (hence the PWI categorization).

830 Caucasians
70 Blacks
100 other minorities

- There are 5 NIC fraternities, 3 NPC sororities, 2 NPHC frats and 2 NPHC sororities.

- Lets take a raw percentage of 40% of students are interested in Greek Life, or 200 of the total. Lets apply this percentage to each ethnic group: 332 Caucasians, 28 Blacks, 40 other minorities.

- Of those interested, only 60% of them have the GPA. Leaving 199 Caucasians, 17 Blacks and 24 other minorities.

Even though I can whittle down further, lets stop here. So you have 199 Caucasians or an avg of 25 members per org (NPC and IFC combined) and 17 Black or an average of 4 members per org (all NPHC orgs). Lets allocate 80% of the other minorities to NPC/IFC orgs and 20% to NPHC orgs, then we have 218 in NPC/IFC orgs or an avg of 27 members and 23 in NPHC orgs or an avg of 6 members.

Not taking into account those who will apply and be rejected or those who will join an org other than their predominant racial category, NPC/IFC orgs are almost five times as large on average! If you throw in multicultural orgs, the Black population joining NPHC orgs gets smaller still.

Disclaimer: The above numbers were derived from a real life situation.


I say all that to say that it is a numbers game.

See, this kind of stuff I know nothing about. I pledged at a Historical Black College. There weren't any WGLOs there. That was cool though, the two of you making something positive happen.

I agree with your thinking. I think people should join what they feel comfortable with, but the reason why I refer to WGLOs as WGLOs is because when African Americans tried to join those organizations around the turn of the 20th Century they weren't allowed. So the WGLOs obviously saw skin color. That's in the past, but I was reading two books one was called "Wrongs of Passage" and the other was called "Pledged." Both books talked about how today at some chapters blacks aren't excepted in WGLOs. Sad but true. Since they still discrminate and see skin color, I refer to WGLOs as WGLOs. ;)