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-   -   University of Mississippi - Ole Miss Panhellenic Sorority Recruitment 2013 (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=132074)

Hartofsec 06-13-2013 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220516)
Zone thing is cool, except they don't tell you what will make a Chapter take someone in the yellow zone as a new member, and so it can lead to a Yellow Zone PNM that needs to go through formal recruitment her Sophomore year to go through as a Freshman.

Does anyone recall the Ole Miss PNM mom who railed against the cruel sororities and more cruel Panhellenic that dropped her Yellow Zone GPA daughter after Philanthropy? It was because the Zone system gave the Mother and Daughter a sense of deniability about the less than 3.0 GPA.

It's that tension between Panhellenic inclusiveness (everyone will get a trophy) and the Chapters needing to have quality PNMs through their own Membership Selection. Just look at the Freshman Class Overall GPA in the graph posted (comes from the Ole Miss web site.) It kind of paints a picture doesn't it?

Considering, what I found a bit surprising in the Ole Miss stats is how many sorority chapter averages are in the yellow zone. There are five chapters in the green zone, and most of those just barely over a 3.0.

Not that my own alma mater is a flagship of academic selectivity :), but it seems as if the sorority/Greek chapter averages at Ole Miss are noticeably low in general.

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartofsec (Post 2220889)
Considering, what I found a bit surprising in the Ole Miss stats is how many sorority chapter averages are in the yellow zone. There are five chapters in the green zone, and most of those just barely over a 3.0.

Not that my own alma mater is a flagship of academic selectivity :), but it seems as if the sorority/Greek chapter averages at Ole Miss are noticeably low in general. Fall 2012:
@Hartofsec: I agree they are very low, but that is part and parcel when the University forces Chapters to have Recruitment during the Semester at an SEC school. So many unsatisfied PNMs were withdrawing from Ole Miss after Recruitment that Administration moved Recruitment out of the traditional preterm August time frame. Today, the largely non-Greek Alumni Instructors choose to routinely put midterms, papers, projects, and tests during the week of Recruitment out of passive (or active) aggression. Further, Recruitment is scheduled around the Football schedule so we cannot set Recruitment dates until the Football schedule is written in stone. For an Institution where the Administration, Alumni, Faculty, and Students say they want to be taken seriously, the current arrangement flies in the face of any appearance of Ole Miss having a serious purpose for academic achievement. Probably why it's the #1 party school in the nation right now it that academics are not the primary purpose. That being said, I have been told that Spring Term grades significantly improved over Fall, but do not believe it has been published as of yet.

Gingerdeltaz 06-13-2013 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220895)
Today, the largely non-Greek Alumni Instructors choose to routinely put midterms, papers, projects, and tests during the week of Recruitment out of passive (or active) aggression.
My daughter went through recruitment at Ole Miss in the fall of 2012 and said that this was very apparent. When it happened in a couple of classes she thought perhaps it was coincidence, but it soon became obvious that it was not.

Another note on something that may or may not have had an impact on the sorority GPA's...my daughter had several friends who were dropped from recruitment fairly early on due to grades, but were given snap bids on bid day when some of the chapters did not make quota. (I doubt that these few girls that my daughter knew were enough, in and of themselves to make a significant impact, but I'm certain that they were not the only girls who had been dropped and received snap bids.) Just a thought...

Hartofsec 06-13-2013 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220895)
@Hartofsec: I agree they are very low, but that is part and parcel when the University forces Chapters to have Recruitment during the Semester at an SEC school. So many unsatisfied PNMs were withdrawing from Ole Miss after Recruitment that Administration moved Recruitment out of the traditional preterm August time frame. Today, the largely non-Greek Alumni Instructors choose to routinely put midterms, papers, projects, and tests during the week of Recruitment out of passive (or active) aggression. Further, Recruitment is scheduled around the Football schedule so we cannot set Recruitment dates until the Football schedule is written in stone. For an Institution where the Administration, Alumni, Faculty, and Students say they want to be taken seriously, the current arrangement flies in the face of any appearance of Ole Miss having a serious purpose for academic achievement. Probably why it's the #1 party school in the nation right now it that academics are not the primary purpose. That being said, I have been told that Spring Term grades significantly improved over Fall, but do not believe it has been published as of yet.

I can see how rush conflicting with the midterm could have an impact on GPAs -- honestly, I don't know how everyone survives (especially the actives!). And most girls will have this interruption 4 semesters during their time at Ole Miss. Best to schedule one's most difficult classes in the spring if possible (made me wonder if this discourages some serious students from recruitment and membership).

I didn't see the spring 2013 numbers anywhere, but looked up the previous spring (2012). Interestingly the numbers are similar -- still very low -- with just a 0.08 overall difference for the nine NPC sororities:

http://web.archive.org/web/201211200...ks/scholarship

This might make it difficult to advocate for a different recruitment period based on the impact on grades. It might also lead a PNM with similar "yellow zone" grades to feel less concerned about how her grades will affect her recruitment.

I'm not sure how this can be explained considering the rising GPAs of more recent freshman classes at Ole Miss overall. If MS is anything like Alabama in terms of rural high schools (and I think it is), high school GPAs from rural high schools may seem inflated compared to more urban (suburban perhaps) high schools and private schools.

In other words, a 4.0 at Outlying Rural High is not necessarily equal to a 4.0 at Jackson Academy.

I think the rising numbers of OOS students probably helped us in this department at Bama.

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartofsec (Post 2220925)
In other words, a 4.0 at Outlying Rural High is not necessarily equal to a 4.0 at Jackson Academy.
This ^^^ and the intense social scene at Ole Miss. I remain amazed at how busy these young women are. Ole Miss is deceptive. When I was in undergrad in the 80's, it was known to be a moderately easy school with only certain courses of study being challenging. During Chancellor Khayat's tenure, Ole Miss acquired a more serious tone and a Phi Beta Kappa Chapter. People who rely on their parents memories will be sorely mistaken. And those who were never allowed off the leash in high school? They will be lost in the whirl. When I was a young one, Ole Miss used to lose 50% of the Freshman every year ("The Dean of Students hopes that you will take this next semester to reflect on how you might improve your performance in the Spring Term next year at Ole Miss"), I don't know what it is now.

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 08:06 PM
Hartofsec, I don't have 2012-13, but there is data showing that Fall recruitment might have a detrimental effect. Though I'm sure it's not the only drag on GPA affecting Greek women. And it is obvious that Panhellenic is taking grades far more seriously than in the recent past.

Panhellenic All Sorority Average

Year . . . . . . . . . .Fall . . . . . . .Spring . . . . . Diff +/(-)
2007-08 . . . . . . 2.88 . . . . . . 2.69 . . . . . . (0.19)
2008-09 . . . . . . 2.96 . . . . . . 2.70 . . . . . . (0.26)
2009-10 . . . . . . 2.99 . . . . . . 3.06 . . . . . . . 0.07
2010-11 . . . . . . 3.02 . . . . . . 3.10 . . . . . . . 0.08
2011-12 . . . . . . 3.00 . . . . . . 3.12 . . . . . . . 0.12

IndianaSigKap 06-13-2013 08:08 PM
Looking at the chart HartofSEC posted, is it a typo or is there one chapter really 100-150 members smaller than the other 8 chapters? If so, how does that happen with RFM and QAs, etc? I know technically how it could happen, but I can't imagine the college Panhellenic not helping even out the numbers.

carnation 06-13-2013 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartofsec (Post 2220925)
not necessarily equal to a 4.0 at Jackson Academy.
^^^ Hey! My husband's cousin has taught there forever!

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 08:10 PM
My beloved Mr. Poppins went there as a young man.

ADPiEE 06-13-2013 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220895)
@Hartofsec: I agree they are very low, but that is part and parcel when the University forces Chapters to have Recruitment during the Semester at an SEC school. So many unsatisfied PNMs were withdrawing from Ole Miss after Recruitment that Administration moved Recruitment out of the traditional preterm August time frame. .
Pardon the crash (and I'm sure this has been explained before and I missed it)--why didn't they opt for a deferred recruitment (In January) instead of having a long drawn-out recruitment in the fall? I can't see how the current schedule is good for anyone.

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADPiEE (Post 2220931)
Pardon the crash (and I'm sure this has been explained before and I missed it)--why didn't they opt for a deferred recruitment (In January) instead of having a long drawn-out recruitment in the fall? I can't see how the current schedule is good for anyone.
Everyone of the Chapters said that it would negatively impact their finances to move Recruitment a whole semester. Given that not for profits cannot retain proceeds after expenses (known as profit in the for profit world) it may have seemed impossible to plan for that eventuality.

ADPiEE 06-13-2013 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220932)
Everyone of the Chapters said that it would negatively impact their finances to move Recruitment a whole semester. Given that not for profits cannot retain proceeds after expenses (known as profit in the for profit world) it may have seemed impossible to plan for that eventuality.
That makes sense--I didn't think about the financial implications. The two schools I know of in Texas that do deferred recruitment don't have houses.
Is this true for most of the deferred recruitment schools?

IndianaSigKap 06-13-2013 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADPiEE (Post 2220933)
That makes sense--I didn't think about the financial implications. The two schools I know of in Texas that do deferred recruitment don't have houses.
Is this true for most of the deferred recruitment schools?
Not true for Indiana University or Ohio State University. Both have deferred recruitment and chapter houses.

ETA: I forgot Butler University, too.

Titchou 06-13-2013 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220932)
Everyone of the Chapters said that it would negatively impact their finances to move Recruitment a whole semester. Given that not for profits cannot retain proceeds after expenses (known as profit in the for profit world) it may have seemed impossible to plan for that eventuality.
Definitely to the first sentence as they would lose a whole semester of income. As for the second sentence, that's not exactly the case for all non profits. C 3's can retain quite a bit of revenue in investments and use the interest/dividends for programming and donations without any problems. C 7's, which is what most NPC's are nationally and locally (as well as most HCs) can retain a "reasonable" portion - but Lord only knows what that might mean to an IRS agent these days! Also, C 7's can do "set asides" with non member income (interest, dividends, rentals to non members, donations, etc) over $1000 per year for certain approved items such as principal payment on a mortgage, educational and charitable giving. To go a little further, some HCs are C 2's which are title holding corporations. They must spend all their income by the end of the fiscal year or return it to the stock holders. The only exceptions here are voted on items that will maintain their property (roof, boiler, etc) for which they need to accumulate funds over several years. (The old housing person in me coming out! I even have a chart of all this.)

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2220936)
Definitely to the first sentence as they would lose a whole semester of income. As for the second sentence, that's not exactly the case for all non profits. C 3's can retain quite a bit of revenue in investments and use the interest/dividends for programming and donations without any problems. C 7's, which is what most NPC's are nationally and locally (as well as most HCs) can retain a "reasonable" portion - but Lord only knows what that might mean to an IRS agent these days! Also, C 7's can do "set asides" with non member income (interest, dividends, rentals to non members, donations, etc) over $1000 per year for certain approved items such as principal payment on a mortgage, educational and charitable giving. To go a little further, some HCs are C 2's which are title holding corporations. They must spend all their income by the end of the fiscal year or return it to the stock holders. The only exceptions here are voted on items that will maintain their property (roof, boiler, etc) for which they need to accumulate funds over several years. (The old housing person in me coming out! I even have a chart of all this.)
Thank you. It has been 18 years since I was the FCB Secretary. And of course the operations policy varies from GLO to GLO.

Titchou 06-13-2013 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220939)
Thank you. It has been 18 years since I was the FCB Secretary. And of course the operations policy varies from GLO to GLO.
As much as I keep trying to say that I am "retired" I seem to find myself helping to build a house in NC for one of our chapters and serving on the NPC University Housing Initiatives Committee! (Don't you love it when they nominate you for a position and forget to tell you until you've already been chosen?) I do have to admit it's been interesting.

MaryPoppins 06-13-2013 09:35 PM
Titchou, I do envy you just the tiniest bit, and then I remember how dramatic FCB could be and then I offer thanks that I'm currently happier being on Advisory Board.

Titchou 06-13-2013 09:51 PM
All the boards have their drama - it just depends on which kind you'd rather sign up for!
But I did retire this year as an adviser - complete with a thank you plaque and all. Bittersweet for sure as I've volunteered in various ways on that campus and with our chapter for 30 years. I will miss the girls....they keep you on your toes!

Hartofsec 06-15-2013 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220927)
Hartofsec, I don't have 2012-13, but there is data showing that Fall recruitment might have a detrimental effect. Though I'm sure it's not the only drag on GPA affecting Greek women. And it is obvious that Panhellenic is taking grades far more seriously than in the recent past.

Panhellenic All Sorority Average

Year . . . . . . . . . .Fall . . . . . . .Spring . . . . . Diff +/(-)
2007-08 . . . . . . 2.88 . . . . . . 2.69 . . . . . . (0.19)
2008-09 . . . . . . 2.96 . . . . . . 2.70 . . . . . . (0.26)
2009-10 . . . . . . 2.99 . . . . . . 3.06 . . . . . . . 0.07
2010-11 . . . . . . 3.02 . . . . . . 3.10 . . . . . . . 0.08
2011-12 . . . . . . 3.00 . . . . . . 3.12 . . . . . . . 0.12

Worse yet, those figures are an average of all sororities, and include the chapter GPAs of 2 NPHC sororities (with 4 and 8 members respectively) that were higher than any of the NPC sororities.

For the last fall (2011) listed on the chart, the 9 NPC sororities holding huge fall recruitments even fell slightly below that with a collective average of 2.98. :eek:

Panhellenic needs to be serious!

I don't really understand how deferring recruitment to January, for instance, would represent such a financial hit to the chapters (at least relative to the potential impact on scholarship). The new members wouldn't be joining until midterm anyway, and they don't live in the house. Not to mention that the chapters have grown over the years -- there are many more actives now to spread the cost over than in the past.

And I don't really buy the University's concern that girls will drop out of school to pursue their dream chapter elsewhere if rush is held in August. Just the logistics of this -- not to mention the complications presented by social media -- would render this improbable to be successful or likely to occur with any regularity. Heartbroken PNMs can otherwise drop out or transfer regardless of when recruitment is held (and probably do on every campus).

It seems a lot more likely that the girls' grades would cause problems with retention. GPAs that low will certainly limit their opportunities on the other side of undergrad -- even if they stay until graduation.

The current recruitment time frame just seems illogical -- especially, as you pointed out, for an institution that should be in the business of serious academics.

MaryPoppins 06-15-2013 03:10 PM
Girl, you are preaching to the choir here.

ADPiEE 06-15-2013 03:18 PM
Has there been a lot of new construction here like at Alabama? Maybe that's why they can't take the financial hit of deferred recruitment?

I agree--keep recruitment before school starts. First priority should be grades. Let the PNMs who don't get their dream chapter go elsewhere if they want. Was there THAT many girls that did this?--enough to financially impact the university or sororities? Maybe there was--I don't know the history.

ComradesTrue 06-15-2013 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2220623)
In the Ole Miss Panhllenic FAQ:

What is a letter of recommendation? Do I really need one?
• A recommendation is a personal letter of reference written by an alumnae member of a sorority to introduce a Potential New Member to her sorority. In the recommendation, the alumnae will write about your activities and talents so the sorority can get acquainted with you before recruitment begins.
• Recommendation letters are not required to go through recruitment. They are helpful in the recruitment process. You may send more than one letter of recommendation if you wish.
• DO NOT include transcripts or test scores with your recommendation letters. Sororities will receive your overall GPA before recruitment begins, therefore transcripts are not necessary. This includes not sending it to local Alumnae Panhellenic Associations or the sorority.

The red is an appropriate message for the Panhellenic to be providing, but I think it only tells half of the story as my previous posts here on recs would indicate. However I do like getting transcripts and test scores even if I do not send them on to the Chapter because it helps me write a more informative letter of reference (recommendation.) If a PNM struggled early in high school due to a death/divorce and then excelled at the end, I think the Chapter needs to know that. It could make the difference for the PNM. I've had mothers fail to tell me that there as a dip in grades due to a catastrophe, and I wouldn't have suspected a thing if I hadn't seen the transcript.
Oh, this has set me off!

Where does the campus Panhellenic get off telling the girls what to send to the local Alumnae Panhellenics? I write dozens of recs each year, and am VERY uncomfortable writing a rec without a transcript. You have mentioned some of my reasons, but I also like to see the quality of classes that the PNM has taken and the types of electives. However, mostly I want a school confirmation on their academic ability. I have seen some very generous "roundings" of GPA. I fully understand that the chapters can sniff this out with the Panhellenic transcript but if I am signing my name to a rec then I want to confirm that what I am telling the chapters is true.

I find it very odd, not to mention inappropriate, for a campus Panhellenic to tell the girls not to send the transcripts to the APH's and to their rec writers. If the individual chapters do not want me to pass along the transcript, then I won't. But please don't interfere with the information available to me through the APH.

msmom 06-16-2013 10:42 PM
Rush 2013
 
Lots of questions and would LOVE any feedback. Has anyone heard that they are cutting quota next year due to new colonies (I know about ADPi but apparently another is in the works?) I was told by a current member that they are going from 120-130 pledge classes to 90. Anyone else hear this? Also, I've been told 1 rec/1 letter but am reading here that 2 or more for each is better. Would love feedback on that as well! And all of us new moms are so confused about ranking and what the girls should do. That may be off limits for this board, but it is certainly complicated.

DubaiSis 06-16-2013 11:10 PM
Quota is not pre-determined. Do a search for RFM (release figures method) and you should find a full explanation. What you have heard is patently rumor and can in no way be true. In short, the computer takes in a list of members in preferential order and a list from all the rushees and their ordered preferences. It does a match using first choices first until every girl has a home. The only girls it won't necessarily match are girls who haven't listed every chapter to which they attended a preference party. If 900 girls went through the preference round and listed every sorority for that round, then 900 girls would have a bid the next day. The problem is some girls (NOT that many) don't get invited all the way through to preference. Some girls drop out of rush for a variety of reasons, including they aren't happy with the outcome, and some go through preference and only write down their favorite chapter. That can drop the number of matched girls considerably. But someone deciding quota needs to be smaller this year isn't part of the equation. At all.

Missouri Ivy 06-16-2013 11:10 PM
By bringing on more groups, it will make pledge classes smaller(unless the number rushing continues to climb) by spreading the PNMs out among more groups. However, colonies usually don't participate in all rounds of formal recruitment, so I don't know that this year's quota will be considerably smaller than last year. Spaces aren't being lost.

Missouri Ivy 06-16-2013 11:11 PM
And I type slow.

Missouri Ivy 06-16-2013 11:16 PM
Ranking isn't an issue as long as you keep an open mind. If you are invited to all your top choices, that's where you go. If you are released by one or more of them, your ranked chapters fill in the gaps, in the order you ranked them.

ETA: Alpha Phi is also scheduled to colonize, but not until 2015.

DubaiSis 06-16-2013 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouri Ivy (Post 2221275)
Quota is determined by taking the number of PNM's attending preference parties and dividing by the number of sororities on campus.
This isn't how quota is figured.

33girl 06-16-2013 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2221279)
This isn't how quota is figured.
It may not be the EXACT method, but it still gets across the "quota is NOT predetermined before rush even starts" point - which is what a lot of people mistakenly think. That's the important thing here. Leave the detailed discussions of RFM and QAs and whatever else for another day.

Hartofsec 06-17-2013 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie93 (Post 2221152)
Oh, this has set me off!

Where does the campus Panhellenic get off telling the girls what to send to the local Alumnae Panhellenics? I write dozens of recs each year, and am VERY uncomfortable writing a rec without a transcript. You have mentioned some of my reasons, but I also like to see the quality of classes that the PNM has taken and the types of electives. However, mostly I want a school confirmation on their academic ability. I have seen some very generous "roundings" of GPA. I fully understand that the chapters can sniff this out with the Panhellenic transcript but if I am signing my name to a rec then I want to confirm that what I am telling the chapters is true.

I find it very odd, not to mention inappropriate, for a campus Panhellenic to tell the girls not to send the transcripts to the APH's and to their rec writers. If the individual chapters do not want me to pass along the transcript, then I won't. But please don't interfere with the information available to me through the APH.
I also thought that was odd advice. I have always advised girls to include a transcript with the packet passed along to their rec-writers, and appreciate these when I am writing a rec.

The GPA doesn't always reflect what went on academically -- if there was a hardship or a circumstance during high school that should be noted, then this can be included on the rec. If a PNM took a lot of AP courses, then this can be highlighted too.

HQWest 06-17-2013 12:12 AM
If I had to guess its a privacy issue. They have no control over what is done with the transcripts afterwards and so they advise not to send them.

The chapters would obviously prefer a letter from a long time friend or a teacher who could answer those questions about activities or AP classes or a problem outside of class but that is not always possible.

MaryPoppins 06-17-2013 07:30 AM
The 90 number for quota is merely a rumor. And if Panhellenic was to give a number to Chapters to use for planning, I'm sure it would be based on the number of Freshman Women pre-registered and the percentage number that usually enrolls between pre-registration and the start of classes. Remember also that the University has access to the grades of registered Freshman, and knows what percentage would likely be given bids.

In spite of the warnings against going into Recruitment with less than a 3.0 GPA, there are always a number that go through anyway. Some believe they are the exception, and some are doing pre-work for going through their Sophomore year.

newtoolemiss 06-18-2013 05:12 PM
number of recs and or letters of support
 
How many recs and are letters of support are recommended for chapters at Ole Miss?

MaryPoppins 06-18-2013 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoolemiss (Post 2221534)
How many recs and are letters of support are recommended for chapters at Ole Miss?
2 minimum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2200688)
Ole Miss Panhellenic Sorority Recruitment 2013

This is a competitive recruitment campus and Letters of Reference and Recommendations should be considered to be necessary. Some folks suggest two recs per Chapter as a minimum.

Concise advice on how to obtain recommendations:
 http://www.uapanhellenic.com/index.p...d=15&Itemid=32
(The advice comes from the Unversity of Alabama but applies to any school.)

DubaiSis 06-18-2013 07:46 PM
If 2 is the minimum, what number would you recommend they actually send? I mean, is 15 too many? It would be more clear if the answer was 2 or 3, or 2 minimum, but 4 is better and 6 is too many.

MaryPoppins 06-18-2013 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryPoppins (Post 2204000)
The importance of Letters of Reference, Recommendations, et cetera, is twofold: 1) to check a box that the PNM has one; and 2) to let the chapter know about the PNM. The amount of PNM support a rec/ref provides is dependent on the quality of the rec/ref itself, and therefore dependent on the writer and the PNM. If it's bland or pro forma it will just fulfill that box check requirement.

The crux of the matter comes when the PNM seems attractive to the chapter and the chapter now wants to know more about her. If she is already known to the chapter then the pro forma rec/ref is fine. If she is not well known, or perhaps unknown, then a informational ref/rec is needed. The unknown/less well known PNM needs the additional boost to go beyond the chapters mere interest. Chapters use all information received to study the PNM, they use that information in recruitment to connect with her, and if she is a rush crush to promote her within the chapter.

It is old school to look at the number of ref/recs or letters of support when evaluating an PNM. I cannot speak to how old school any of the chapters here at Ole Miss are as that is clearly a membership selection area. Since recruitment gifts of food and flowers in support of a PNM are no longer permitted, the extra letters and rec/refs may now seem the only avenue available. I cannot know how additional letters and rec/refs would be received at the various chapters at Ole Miss, but I think that I would make certain that there was quality over quantity in any rec/ref, resume', or materials sent in on one of my daughters.
The answer you seek.

carolkr 06-19-2013 11:19 PM
I was an AXO at Georgia Tech, and I was clueless about how involved all this rush preparation is and evidently I stumbled through it somehow. Now as my daughter is going to Ole Miss, I realize I am woefully unprepared to assist her.

I have read all the previous year’s information about Ole Miss as well as numerous other postings in general, but I have some stupid questions about the recommendations that I haven’t been able to figure out.

Initially I assumed a recommendation letter was just that – a letter typed on a sheet of paper and written to describe attributes of the PNM. Pretty much like this description on how to write a rec:
Quote:
Originally Posted by adpiucf (Post 2220668)
First, I like to start my letters with a sentence stating that I am pleased to recommend NAME, a YEAR IN SCHOOL MAJOR from HOMETOWN and (something outstanding about them; e.g., varsity cheerleader, student council president, regional president of NHS, etc.) for membership in the sorority. Second, I point out what makes her a scholar: list GPA, and any scholarships or academic honors. Third, I talk about leadership/athletics/activities, including any offices held and awards (this is a great place to suggest chapter office positions for which the PNM might be suited based on your knowledge of her and her experiences). Fourth, I'll talk about community service and involvement. Fifth, I'll mention that she's prepared to handle the financial responsibilities of membership and how she'll be paying for dues (parents, scholarship, etc.). Sixth, I'll talk about how I know her and what I know of her personality that would make her a good sister. In closing, I'll wish the chapter a wonderful recruitment and hope they enjoy meeting this special PNM.
But as I discussed the recommendation process with a friend of mine who has written recommendations, she offered to show me a package she received from a PNM to show me what we needed to do when requesting a rec. She protected the person’s personal information, but showed me the basic documents the PNM provided her, and I was surprised to see a 3 page blank sorority recommendation form the PNM included.

While I can appreciate the form provides a consistent format for the sorority to evaluate, it seems the letter would be more personal from someone who really knows the candidate. Yet I followed a link in one of the posts to the University of Alabama guidelines for recommendations, which describes such a letter as ‘letter of support’ and is flatly discouraged.

So will all the recommendations actually be each sorority’s standard form rather than real letters?

What if someone actually sends a letter? My mom’s very close friend is 90 years old, attended UGA, has been active in her sorority her entire life, but I can’t imagine her filling out a form rather than writing a real letter. I know she would write a beautiful recommendation for my daughter, and I was glad to have someone from a SEC school, but will her letter be discounted as a ‘letter of support’?

Sorry for these really basic questions. Thanks for all I have learned through all the posts.

WCsweet<3 06-19-2013 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolkr (Post 2221712)
While I can appreciate the form provides a consistent format for the sorority to evaluate, it seems the letter would be more personal from someone who really knows the candidate. Yet I followed a link in one of the posts to the University of Alabama guidelines for recommendations, which describes such a letter as ‘letter of support’ and is flatly discouraged.

So will all the recommendations actually be each sorority’s standard form rather than real letters?

What if someone actually sends a letter? My mom’s very close friend is 90 years old, attended UGA, has been active in her sorority her entire life, but I can’t imagine her filling out a form rather than writing a real letter. I know she would write a beautiful recommendation for my daughter, and I was glad to have someone from a SEC school, but will her letter be discounted as a ‘letter of support’?

Sorry for these really basic questions. Thanks for all I have learned through all the posts.
Each organization uses a different form. From the ones I've seen (not all are available to the public) they all allow for comments. Some have more room including an entire page, others have smaller spaces. Your mother's friend may belong to sorority that does things in a certain way. However, we can't tell you how things work without knowing which organization you are talking about. Also, some organizations are private about their letters, for whatever reason. This may be because it is part of membership selection, which is private information. I would suggest talking to your friend's mother. If she is still active she will know her organization's policy and what to do or may be able to find out what is needed.

MaryPoppins 06-20-2013 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolkr (Post 2221712)
I was an AXO at Georgia Tech, and I was clueless about how involved all this rush preparation is and evidently I stumbled through it somehow. Now as my daughter is going to Ole Miss, I realize I am woefully unprepared to assist her.

I have read all the previous year’s information about Ole Miss as well as numerous other postings in general, but I have some stupid questions about the recommendations that I haven’t been able to figure out.

Initially I assumed a recommendation letter was just that – a letter typed on a sheet of paper and written to describe attributes of the PNM. Pretty much like this description on how to write a rec:


But as I discussed the recommendation process with a friend of mine who has written recommendations, she offered to show me a package she received from a PNM to show me what we needed to do when requesting a rec. She protected the person’s personal information, but showed me the basic documents the PNM provided her, and I was surprised to see a 3 page blank sorority recommendation form the PNM included.

While I can appreciate the form provides a consistent format for the sorority to evaluate, it seems the letter would be more personal from someone who really knows the candidate. Yet I followed a link in one of the posts to the University of Alabama guidelines for recommendations, which describes such a letter as ‘letter of support’ and is flatly discouraged.

So will all the recommendations actually be each sorority’s standard form rather than real letters?

What if someone actually sends a letter? My mom’s very close friend is 90 years old, attended UGA, has been active in her sorority her entire life, but I can’t imagine her filling out a form rather than writing a real letter. I know she would write a beautiful recommendation for my daughter, and I was glad to have someone from a SEC school, but will her letter be discounted as a ‘letter of support’?

Sorry for these really basic questions. Thanks for all I have learned through all the posts.
Sometimes the terminology is overwhelming. What used to be universally called "recommendations" or "recs" may also be called "letters of reference" or "references." If one recommendation (reference) has been sent in then other alumnae may send in notes of letters of support. Recently I have learned from a DG, here on GC, that even the non-form letters of support are treated like recs/refs. When I am sending in a letter of reference on a PNM to Theta, I always include a letter in addition to the official letter of reference form, in case someone wants to read my narrative about the PNM. You never know if your PNM might become a star to the Chapter she is rushing.

Hartofsec 06-20-2013 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolkr (Post 2221712)
But as I discussed the recommendation process with a friend of mine who has written recommendations, she offered to show me a package she received from a PNM to show me what we needed to do when requesting a rec. She protected the person’s personal information, but showed me the basic documents the PNM provided her, and I was surprised to see a 3 page blank sorority recommendation form the PNM included.
The PNM doesn't include the blank recommendation form in the resume packet -- the alum will obtain and print the rec form for completion (or complete and submit online). But do prepare a pretty resume packet to give to rec writers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carolkr (Post 2221712)
While I can appreciate the form provides a consistent format for the sorority to evaluate, it seems the letter would be more personal from someone who really knows the candidate.
Seems like that to me too -- I'm not sure why the Bama site discourages these letters. Alums send them anyway and also sometimes include these along with the rec forms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carolkr (Post 2221712)
What if someone actually sends a letter? My mom’s very close friend is 90 years old, attended UGA, has been active in her sorority her entire life, but I can’t imagine her filling out a form rather than writing a real letter. I know she would write a beautiful recommendation for my daughter, and I was glad to have someone from a SEC school, but will her letter be discounted as a ‘letter of support’?
Surely a chapter wouldn't discount a beautifully written letter from a 90-year-old loyal alum -- that would be something special. I say she should send whatever she feels is appropriate (letter and/or rec). Meanwhile, secure another rec to the same chapter that (you are reasonably sure) will be completed with the GLO's recommendation form.

Best of luck to your daughter!


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