Maybe they could have also used help from the other sororities on campus not talking shit about them. (Which I'm assuming you did then since you're still doing it now.)

You really need to check yourself before you wreck yourself.

If I have either the chapter or university wrong, then by all means correct my understanding.

Otherwise, I have responded to the behavior I witnessed on this thread, and what I observed regarding that chapter’s closure during my own time at UofA.

If this person is in a position of importance in her own organization, then she should be embarrassed, not I. I’m obviously not familiar with the culture of this forum, or with the meaning of foreboding insider comments regarding her identity, but who she is matters little. Bullying is bullying, and bystanders are bystanders, wherever it occurs.

Perhaps some who have been immersed in the culture of this forum have become desensitized to heckling and personal attacks, and don’t realize how this plays to newcomers and infrequent visitors.

And yes, I understand that pointing it out and advocating for the vulnerable party is not advisable in such a culture – it works much the same on a playground.

That's possible, 33girl. I don't know what caused the chapter to dwindle and close, though they had apparently been struggling for some time.

I never witnessed a girl in that chapter being heckled, though if I had, I surely would have spoken up in her defense. I just stink at joining in and piling on with that sort of behavior. ;)

No one is bullying you or anyone else here. Get real. After you assumed that Titchou was not involved with her sorority, it was pointed out to you that you have no idea what her involvement or her background is. Was she a little harsh with the OP? Yes, but it wasn't directed to you, and the OP actually handled herself quite well.

I hope it all works out for the OP's daughter.

And as far as this:

if you say so. :rolleyes:

Wow! And thank you 33Girl is all I have to say.

Oh I never said I was bullied. My comments concern the ridicule and personal attacks directed to the OP, who did handle herself quite well, and who did herself correctly identify the behavior as bullying.

Though I have been responding to the pile-on since.

I did state that the hard-working chapter advisors in T-town are busy with the constructive tasks surrounding recruitment instead of heckling parents online. And I also stated that I was speaking for my own chapter.

Apparently, however, that assumption doesn't extend to Titchou, and she finds time for both.

So you are correct, amIblue. It's just kind of an odd point to feel correct about.

As a long-time lurker, I'm somewhat confused by the culture of this site and the prevalence of snarky responses posted by some of "the regulars."

I wonder if those same people are so frank when dealing face-to-face with friends/family members/co-workers/members of their own or other GLOs/etc?

Perhaps it's harder to bite one's tongue on greekchat's message boards than in real life?

Every year we get some parent on here trying to figure out a way to keep the DD from pledging a more expensive group. There is just NO WAY to do that once recruitment has started. I'm sorry if they don't like it but that's reality. FIrst of all, the emotion gets in the way. And second of all, while it's a mutual selction process, you have to get an invitation in order to "select." So what happens if only the more expensive groups (and it's hard to know that no matter what) invite her back? And third, it's not fair to the groups if they have women that go thru the process and then drop when they find out their group is one of the ones above the average dues number the parents saw.

Sometimes reality is harsh. Most of us have experienced that in one way or another in our lives. But these types of parents need a dose of reality. They are trying to close the barn door after the horse has left. Other posters on here offered solutions - have the girl work a few hours a week or all summer to help pay the "overage" on the dues. But the OP didn't like those ideas. And she didn't offer any ideas of her own (like get a part time job herself or anything else or offer an explanation of why she couldn't) so I'm not all that synmpathetic towards her. I am towards the daughter. And yes, I am this frank in person. And I have said these same things to a real live personal friend of mine in the past when her daughter went thru. I generally find that being honest when someone asks my opinion is the best option.

I'm a long-time lurker too -- usually confined to this time of year. I have found useful information in the stickied posts and appreciate the links to published bid lists, etc.

But I've actually never seen a forum culture where even a moderator joins in the heckling and uses vulgar language. I thought that was what a moderator was responsible for preventing. #classy

Perhaps they don't realize that this kind of behavior just perpetuates stereotypes about greek organizations.

Being frank is not the same as ridiculing a mother and launching personal attacks directed toward her parenting. I guess doing so from behind anonymous screen names enhances the boldness of some.

Honestly, you're over blowing the whole situation. Talk about drama queen. I don't agree with Titchou's statements on parenting, but a whole bunch of posters came to the OP's defense about that. Titchou has a right to her opinion...who knows, she may be a middle child who got treated differently by her parents and is sensitive to it. As adults, we can IGNORE opinions we don't like and move on. As for you pretending to be above the fray, your post about her group closing when you were at Bama was as catty a comment as any I've seen in my 5 years on GC, and by the way really perpetuates those evil Greek stereotypes. So keep on #classy-ing all you want...

In the end, I feel for the OP and the position she's in, BUT Titchou and 33Girl are right, there isn't much she can do but ride it out and pay the dues she's assessed or drop out. There just isn't that much control, unfortunately, in the system.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that most of the "regulars" have been on here for at least a few recruitments, and the same questions come up over and over and over. (This is one, as well as the timeless "black girl in an NPC" discussion.) Some of us get kind of annoyed by it and some people express their annoyance in different ways.

I'm having a hard time understanding why an UNDERGRADUATE major would try to prevent students from working. Architecture is as ridiculous as any major (there's a reason why they call it "architorture") and none of the schools that I've been allied with have ever tried to prevent students from working because some kids need to do so. Usually, if work is discouraged, they'll make up for it with a scholarship or a stipend.

Long time lurkers who don't like the culture on GC are free to not visit us here. Quite honestly, if you were long time lurkers, you'd already know what posters have told you.

Clarification
 

For clarification, I'm not the parent of a current snowflake; my own two lovely snowflakes long ago navigated sec recruitment as did I back in the day.

I do enjoy keeping up with where the girls from my hometown pledge, and greekchat.com is an interesting diversion this time of year. Nevertheless, each year, I'm discover at least one thread that's "gone south" with regulars attacking a parent who has posted seeking advice. Now granted, the poster is often unrealistic in his or her expectations, but people often are. In real life, it seems that most of us handle such situations (when we know someone is misguided and has asked for advice) with a great deal more patience and tact than I've seen here.

The NPC and IFC organizations on many SEC campuses still have a reputation of snobbiness and within the systems, some chapters are known as the worst. I believe most of us who have been a part of this community wish this was not our reputation. Unfortunately when we present ourselves (as many on this board do) as authorities on the system and act snarkily to anyone (even each other,) we perpetuate this unfortunate reputation.

Would it be too much to ask that we perhaps remember our panhellenic - and human - spirit?


*As a sidenote, the term "snwoflake" really makes me bristle. Why should a parent NOT think his or her child is special and wonderful?? If you're about to take offense, please go back and re-read the part about unrealistic parents. :)

Without knowing the OP's daughter's major, I'm guessing that holding a job is discouraged because the undergraduate degree is just the first step and grades are paramount to move forward and be accepted to a graduate program.

That being said, I find these work restrictions ridiculous because there is no such restriction for campus activities. I think my sorority involvement was way more intensive than any job I held off campus while I was a full time undergrad.

I think it is great to come from a family where parents pay for college and living expenses and sorority expenses. I didn't have that. I have student loans (and thanks to grad school I will probably have them until I die LOL) and I worked my way through undergrad to pay for living expenses, sorority dues, etc. If I wanted something, I had to pay for it. So I feel like if you want to be in a sorority and your major discourages holding a job, there are ways. You can have a summer job. You can babysit on weekends. You can get a paid internship. You can tutor. You can sell stuff on Ebay or etsy. You can work at any number of campus jobs where all you do is surf the internet and occasionally answer a phone or look up from gchatting to give someone directions.

OP is in a frustrating position, but by her accounts, she has a smart kid. And if her kid wants to make this work, I am sure she will be resourceful and find a way. I wish them both lots of luck and hope the daughter has a great experience at UA.

Have you actually visited any non-Greek parenting boards or news posting boards? This is one of the most civil and helpful boards around. People are snarky. Being Greek doesn't remove that trait. Parents are some of the most judgmental people out there...God forbid you bring up breast feeding and everyone is an expert. Disagreements and differing opinions are okay and don't give Greeks a bad name. We aren't automatons or clones. Sometimes people get their feathers ruffled because they expect every single poster to validate their opinion or pat them on the head, but that's not life...and maybe they need to see the other side of the issue. If they don't accept that opinion, then move on. It's just the opinion of an anonymous person on a message board anyway.:rolleyes: Do you really need Titchou to validate your decisions as a parent?

As much as this thread has gotten way off track, I think the bottom line here is that parents and students deserve to know what the financial liabilities of any organization are before they choose to join. And for recruitment, that means before they even have to pay their $100-$200 registration fee. I enjoyed looking at the PDF form FSU has and how forthcoming they were about what the fees are and more importantly what they cover. I understand that it can cause some issues of girls not wanting to pledge ABC because they have the highest fees, but isn't that how we as adults, make informed decisions? None of us would go to a car lot and just pick a car without knowing what it cost, what that money buys and how much the insurance would be.

I think the OP in this case had an extremely valid point. She went by what Panhellenic said was average. We all know average is just that, but does anyone think "average" and double it? I know I don't. She also was exhibiting frustration at the veiled process. I don't think she failed to research this situation, I think the information is simply not publicly available.

And about Moms. We all have them. Most people here are either a mom or will be one day. We really have no insight on anyone else's lives but our own. Each of our experiences are different and therefore we can only judge ourselves. I have a very tight bond with my mom. I expect her to go to bat for me and I expect her to rein me in (even as an adult) when she sees that I am going rogue. Daughters are half of their mothers. Asking moms and daughters to separate emotionally durning a very stressful period in both their lives is just not rational. Yes, some moms can just say "you are an adult, have a nice life" but I believe that is very rare. Or perhaps I am not drawn socially to other women who have a discarded relationship with their moms. There is no one in my social circle that does not have an wonderfully close bond with their mothers. (although I do have friends who have lost their moms, but they remain bonded to them) I would not want it any other way. But maybe it is not for everyone. That I can respect.

And now, I have a new signature! Thanks!

I agree about the cost issue. Apparently it hasn't effected recruiting so the chapters haven't been forced to do anything about it. Isn't that how capitalism works? We were always forced to hand out a copy of our dues statement during rush when I was a collegiate member. I'm surprised they don't have to do the same. At less competitive recruitments, cost becomes a big issue for competitiveness of a chapter. When HQ raises dues, it can price a chapter out of competition. Women will reject a group based on dues. At Bama, it's more of a chapter weighted recruitment. If you have every group wanting you back, you may get a choice, but with so many women being released, it's pretty willy nilly. Your grateful for what you get. If you can't afford the most expensive chapter, you may want to think about not going through recruitment.

Awww...you made my day. ;)

^^^^this^^^^might just actually soften some of the sarcasm - or at least help the recipient put it in perspective!! ;)

Get on the road, girl! We're waiting!!

IMO the original post and a follow up contained some statements which resulted in strong responses; IMO I didn't see snarkiness. I saw people posting their opinions. FWIW, if you don't like what someone wrote/writes, put them on ignore. Works for me. And, judicious editing can avert a lot of sidebar convos.

I'm with HQWest, pinapple, et al: the cost issue is going to become more and more paramount. I think we should publish at least last year's costs so that PNMs and parents have at least an idea BEFORE they plunk down $ and go through recruitment. That is my opinion and in no way reflects my organization's policy! Got it?

The best we can hope for is that OP and others put UA on blast and this leads to greater transparency in the future.

Seems to me the polite thing to do is to ignore those posts one doesn't want to answer (again).

If they didn't want to publish specific groups, they could at least be more explicit than "average." Give parents a bell curve, or even just mean, varience, and standard deviation. Unfortunately lots of people might assume that one can "try for" the less expensive groups, which isn't the reality.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's much the OP can do now. And given the nature of recruitment at Bama and elsewhere, one really shouldn't start unless they're sure they can pay for the maximum.

In the words of dear old mama (mine and probably yours too),
"Just because everybody else is doing it, that doesn't make it right."

My overall greek experience has been one of my best, and I hope it works out for this young woman. Making her mother feel bad because she is worried about the unpredictable costs didn't help matters. Good luck to you and your daughter OP.

I'll shut up now and go back to lurking.

No, of course a parent should think that of their own children! It's when parents expect OTHERS to think the same thing. I love my children with all my heart. They are special and wonderful to me. I do not expect others to feel the same way.

Completely agree. This could have come right from my mouth.

Absofreakinglutely.

Well said. :)

I do not advise at FSU but see an error in my group's listing of what's included. So I wouldn't place absolute faith in this printed information either.

And to the poster who brought up 35 year old GOSSIP about my chapter, that's stooping pretty low to just say you didn't like what I said to the OP about doing whatever she had to do to pay the freight. It's people like you who contribute to a bad atmosphere for any challenged chapter. How you can think that gossip form that long ago is relevant to anything today is beyond me.

And to those of you who think I was harsh, harsh doesn't mean wrong. Harsh is a dose of reality to a parent to came here expecting us to do be able to correct something over which we have no control. No, I don't know her personal situation. But I know she has 4 children which she intends to put thru college - by her admission. So, she's not exactly on poverty row. Will it be hard, probably. But she has stated that as what she plans to do. Other people tell their children they will not pay for any college and the child has to do it themselves. Some will only pay tuition, room and board. That's a personal decision. Some people say "here's $xxxxx" spend it however you want on college." You do what you can do. And if a suggestion to find a way to pay for it (which is all the "give up your lattes" remark was) is off base then I wonder where my baby boomer generation went astray with their children.

After this discussion, does anyone know what the OP's daughter pledged?

Fixed that for you.

Oh dang....I forgot I was on the English Teacher's forum. First, I get corrected for using 'dau' and now fixing my previous post.

What I meant to say was.....
After this discussion, does anyone know what (sorority) the OP's daughter pledged?

Most forums I frequent enjoy light banter and fun exchanges...well except for this one.:(

I believe socalgirl wasn't correcting your grammar, just pointing out that there's no guarantee the OP's daughter pledged a sorority. She changed what to if, that's not a grammar thing. :)

I was being optimistic hoping she had pledged, and would be a happy new member somewhere, despite all the difficulties she's had getting there. I guess we'll see.

Did the OP's daughter receive and accept a bid? Magic 8 ball says: Better not tell you now.

I also asked Magic 8 ball if the OP would come back to GC and got this: Don't count on it.

:p Two of those types of answers = it's time to move on!

P.S. We actually have very little information about the OP's daughter's recruitment. The OP never posted anything about how her daughter fared throughout the week, other than that she had a full schedule for skit day. This suggests that the daughter was at that point having a successful recruitment (especially considering the competitiveness of Alabama).

I suspect someone like this would be rather tempted to come back to Greekchat to gloat about how her plan to have the daughter list only the budget chapters worked if she did indeed get a bid to one.

First I was all :( face because my attempt at "light banter and fun exchanges" was a FAIL, apparently.

Now I'm all :mad: face.

/flounce

Don't be :( !! I liked your effort :D !

Good use of smilies. You have met your quota for the day!

I have to warn my dear sister AlphaFrog about this post so she doesn't read it on her smartphone in the middle of the mall and embarrass herself by peeing her pants laughing.

And if you think frankness = rudeness, you'd better get one of these:

http://www.bakedziti.net/images/plasticbubble2.jpg

Wait . . . there's an English teachers' forum and I wasn't informed?

A pox on all your houses! (Light banter - cue fun exchange)

I responded to comments floated by others regarding my ignorance of your identity, as if your identity pardoned the comments and ridicule you directed to the OP.

The fact that your own chapter at UofA was challenged, dwindled in membership, and closed is not "gossip" -- it happened, as you already know. My opinion that the girls there would have benefited from the help of committed alums is based on my observation. I (as well as almost every other freshman girl on campus) walked past your chapter house every day during the trek from Tutwiler to class.

Neither my statements of fact nor my observations "stoop" to suggest that anyone should have just skipped lattes to fund improvements to the house, for instance, or anything else. I did not pass judgment on their sorority experience based on some arbitrary measure (as with amount of house bill in this thread), or (retrospectively) waggle a judgmental finger in the faces of their parents.

Blaming other people for your own chapter's challenges and subsequent closing is inconsistent with your sweeping statements regarding personal responsibility and what parents of my generation are teaching their daughters.

I don't have any idea why your chapter struggled with membership -- this was during a time when girls could indeed "drop" a chapter early in the week and never return. Perhaps the system in place today is more advantageous for chapters that struggle with numbers.

Recruitment is a competitive process for the chapters as well as for the PNMs. I guess you could include this on your list of "harsh realities." Blaming other people for your chapter's challenges makes no more sense than a PNM blaming other PNMs for her own recruitment problems.

Frame of reference. When someone snatches opportunities to ridicule and judge other people who are in vulnerable situations, there is almost always more to the story.

I'm just being frank, of course. :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, best wishes toward continued success in the re-colonization of your chapter at Bama. The new house is just fabulous, and I'm sure plenty of outstanding young women will be proud to call it home.