Kappa Sig's letters branded in to a goats head.

That's gross -- really gross -- but it's not paraphernalia*.


* Paraphernalia = clothing and other personal items (paddles, license plates/frames, decorative items, tote bags, etc.) with Greek letters or symbols on them.

It was hung over the entrance to their house..

And that matters? It was criminal, animal cruelty, disgusting. meant to shock . . . take your pick. But it was not paraphernalia in any sense of the word.

Besides, you failed to note what "decorative items" was an example of -- personal items. Jewelry boxes or afghans are decorative personal items. Severed animal heads hung over the door of a (rival fraternity's?) house (as a prank or joke?) are not personal decorative items.

I am not trying to shame the higher ups. I really don't think that many people see stuff on GC. If I were trying to shame them, I'd send a tip to gawker or something like that. GC, while a public forum, is really a pretty small community, and I am, more than anything, expressing my own shock here.

Also, I am frustrated, as I said above, that I can't really explain why this offends me, and there are people I trust here who could say things like "whoa, calm down, you're making a big deal out of nothing" or "yeah, you're right, that could be taken the wrong way".

As I think about it further, even if it is not seen as "blackface", it is a misappropriation of minority culture by an organization with largely white, wealthy, elitist roots, and is just not worth the potential for causing offense.

So in the same line should any shirt that references minority culture by glo's be off limits? Such as these?
http://adamblockdesign.com/abd/wp-co...10/10/1hb1.jpg
http://adamblockdesign.com/abd/wp-co..._Layer-100.jpg
http://adamblockdesign.com/abd/wp-co...glan-front.png

I think those are all problematic, but they aren't my GLO.

My eyesight may fail me but where is the reference to "minority culture" here? Is "homegirl" supposed to be "minority culture?" LOL.

If this horrible shirt is intended for DST, that is probably not from one our licensed vendors. I have never seen such ridiculous reference to Minerva on a Soror. And if it is supposed to be a DST jacket, that would be Black folks making a reference to "supposed Black folks culture" through a Roman goddess.

Oh yeah http://www.myspace.com/515757370/pho...2%3A3608901%7D

I think the Phi Mu shirt is (to say the least) unfortunate, and blackface is NOT OK.

However DeltaBetaBaby found Mevara's other examples problematic. So, I want to ask where is the line with acceptability with pop culture references in these kind of things (per Mevara's examples with the "Notorious KKG" and the "99 Problems" shirts)? Those shirts read to me that they are fans of the music.

(In interest of full disclosure, I'm really going to be in trouble if white people aren't allowed to like music performed by black musicians.)

I think there's nothing racially and ethnically mocking and therefore offensive about the shirts that Mevara posted. Those are references to music and hip hop culture. Music and hip hop culture are one aspect of simply one component of a general African American culture just as music is one aspect of one component of all racial and ethnic group cultures including white Americans and white diaspora/Euro-diaspora.

The use of "homeboy," an image of Jay-Z and 99 problems, and a Notorious B.I.G. reference are not comparable to what is PERCEIVED to be a blackfaced or intentionally darkened Phi Mu mascot.

I think the shirts that Mevara posted are corny and tacky but not because they are offensive. That's for those sororities to deal with. LOL. And if the Minerva one is in reference to Delta, that is not something that Sorors who have a brain will be caught wearing--and a licensed vendor most likely would not be caught selling it.

Good lord.
Would Chuck Norris wear this t-shirt? (Well, no. He went Tri-Delt, didn't he? <Now imagining a Poseidon-is-my-homeboy shirt.>)

I personally still find them distasteful, but as I said upthread, I'm having a hard time articulating it.

They are using hip hop culture to promote organizations that are, historically, comprised of the white and privileged. I think there is a distinct difference between, for example, a Wizard of Oz-themed bid day shirt and a Notorious B.I.G.-themed bid day shirt. I also think there is a difference between, say, the Society of Women Engineers using a "99 Problems" slogan and an NPC group using the same slogan.

It's specifically the friction between the exclusivity of NPC groups and the origins of hip hop culture that rubs me the wrong way. It's sorta like when a conservative political candidate runs some music in their ad by a liberal artist, and the artist has to be like "hey, stop that!".

Now, I don't think any are as bad as Sir Fidel in blackface, but I don't think they are clever, and wouldn't wear one myself.

Just a note with the shirts I posted none of them are approved by the respective org. They are just shirts by a (popular) third party vendor.

The message forms in the mind of the one who perceives it (example DeltaBetaBaby and others.) And doesn't mean that it's the message that the sender intended to transmit. Perception IS reality. [Communications/Marketing 101 Anywhere/Everywhere]

Yes. See: Ronald Reagan using "Born in the USA" as a campaign song (with no clue as to what the lyrics are about).

I just read the lyrics to 99 Problems, and the song is apparently delineating all the problems the lyricist has...however, girl problems are not one of them. What does that have to do with a sorority? (Or the SWE, for that matter)

Actually, on further thought, I revoke my statement that it would be okay for the SWE to use it, but for different reasons, namely that it is not very egalitarian to refer to a woman as a "bitch".

Sorry for the double-post, but I just got an e-mail from HQ saying it will be taken down ASAP. Goodbye, blackface Sir Fidel.

Are you implying that "Wizard of Oz" is a symbol of whiteness whereas "Notorious BIG" and "99 Problems" are symbols of Blackness? Should NPC orgs, and white people in general, therefore avoid these references?

I'm not buying that because it creates a nonsense, surface-level response to inequality which pretends that this is all about people feeling offended by ANY type of reference. "Just stay away from it altogether and there will be no problems." I call nonsense on that. There are clear images of white people mocking non-white cultures, including racial slurs, blackface, and "dressing Black for a day." Every reference to something that is one aspect of one component of nonwhiteness is not offensive regardless of intent and outcome.

Did you know that the Minerva one was in reference to an NPHC sorority? I am still searching for the racial and ethnic mockery there beyond the nonlicensed (probably white) third party vendor's motives.

So, now the issue is gender inequality and sorority life? *brain fart* I thought the issue was supposed to be mimicking and mocking Black folkseseseses. LOL.

We all have a voice! :)

No I did not know that Minerva was a reference to an NPHC sorority as it is also a reference for Kappa. And I only used that one because DeltaBetaBabay thought that the use of the word "homeboy" was offensive and I was wondering if using "homegirl" would also be offensive.

I just noticed that they are an official Greek Licensed company so I don't know if that means the shirts are approved or not.

That doesn't mean that designs are approved. It means that they have paid a licensing fee to use registered trademarks of participating GLOs.

On the seller's website, it is marketed as a "Kappa Kappa Gamma Minerva HoodieBuddie." I can see how the color could suggest Delta rather than Kappa, though.

There are some ugly shirts on that site.

"It truly amazes me when people feel the need to publically critique organizations to which they do not belong."

"If you can't say something nice..."

Some of you are being so "small-minded."

*breathes a sigh of relief*

Thank you, Black baby Jesus. :D

Ignore my Delta and Minerva rant. :D

Shut up.

Nope, I just said that it doesn't sit well with me, and I wouldn't wear such a shirt if one were made for my group. Others are free to do whatever they want, and to feel however they want about the issue.

To offer another analogy, it feels to me a little like having a bachelorette party in a gay bar. There are still parts of the country where black women are largely unwelcome in NPC groups.

:rolleyes:

Since you quoted me, I'll point out that my quote was in response to your "amazement" that a specific sorority had not made membership a requirement or preference in its search for an executive director. You were criticizing the internal hiring decisions of a sorority other than your own.

And I'm sure you'll recall that the "if you can't say anything nice" quote came in response your response of "Ooooo...classy!" to a poster noting that some nationally-involved members of her sorority have tattoos.

Here in this thread, I and others engaged in conversation about a shirt (granted, offered through Phi Mu's in-house store) that a Phi Mu posted here, noting that she had asked her HQ (successfully, it would appear) to discontinue the shirt because she thought it could be seen by members and non-members alike as offensive. I don't think anyone in this thread has publically critiqued an organization to which they do not belong.

Swell try though.

Thanks for the explanation. I always understood your point, I am just wondering where the line is drawn. :)

*Retiring from hiatus for two seconds*

I didn't see the Sir Fidel shirt as a an adoption of a minority culture by elitist white groups. All of black culture is not ruined by a single hip hop reference on a Phi Mu t-shirt. As a "race" we have far bigger concerns.

I see it as an adoption of popular culture just as they would use "Wizard of Oz" theme or "Sex and the City" or a "How I Met Your Mother" theme. It's just what's hot in the streets right now to say "____ is my home boy" or whatever the kids are liking right now. The so called "hip hop" culture is what many young people are into and PNMs and others see these references and think it's "super cute" as we'd say down here.

It's not like they'd one day print a shirt saying "This N**** right here is my home girl" or something. At least not anyone with common sense.

Would I buy that shirt? No, but that's because it's ugly and we have way cuter things with more pink on it, not because I find it racist.

This. All of this. much more eloquent then i was being.

For all of this throwing around of the Wizard of Oz in this thread, I would love for someone to tell me the last time it was used as a theme on a college campus. It's only older than my mom. (And I am no spring chicken, sadly.)

I didn't think of it as blackface so much as trying to save money by only having one colour for the print

I think this thread went way off topic & became a train wreck 2 pages ago.

Can't you guys go back to posting ugly & stupid GLO para again?

That was fun....

The tone of the song seems inappropriate for ANY sorority to use...black, white, brown or fuchsia.

If that's the case, then let's turn it around. When is the last time you saw a BGLO or MCGLO having a shirt or party or whatever themed around How I Met Your Mother?

Doesnt Phi MU frequently do the who "theres no place like home" with their letters for O and M during rush/bid day?

I thought of that too ElieM, thats what i was getting at with the whole what if it were all in pink question.

I agree; it's most likely just a bad color choice. I really don't think anyone was like "hey, Sir Fidel would look great in blackface". However, this is the type of thing that not-Greeks love to latch onto...I could just picture it landing on some liberal blog where not just my org, but all Greeks, are torn to shreds over it.

This is hardly a train wreck.

DeltaBetaBaby and Mevara posted ugly and stupid 'nalia. We are discussing what they posted. Feel free to post your own 'nalia if you don't like the discourse.

Was it fun? I guess it's all relative. I consider this to be more fun.


Are you being sarcastic or backpedaling?

I didn't mean to do either. I'm commenting on intent, not effect. I don't think someone at Phi Mu was like "let's put it in black to be extra offensive!" Never attribute to malice, and all that...

Well, the potential outcome is the same regardless of intent. Some people may think Sir Fidel looks "blacker" to match the "homeboy". That is how you presented it even after a couple of us did not see the offense.

It does seem like your tone has changed. Has it changed because they have agreed to take this off of their official collection? If so, that is why I initially asked if it was a good idea for you to share this with GC when you have already notified the NHQ.

No, I think it was offensive. I am glad they took it down. I think that it was a result of ignorance, not malice, but I think such ignorance is still inexcusable. I also think that maybe, just maybe, the women running my organization would have learned something from a certain Cosby-related PR nightmare just a few months ago. My goal is not to shame my organization by talking about it here, but I also don't feel the need to shield it, either.

ETA: Then again, the person at HQ responsible for approving para also approved a Lily Print with a misspelled motto, and as far as I can tell from the FB page, that is, like, a billion times worse!

What year are we in cause those shirts have not been the business for a while now. That alone would have made me want to have the shirt pulled; horrible execution aside.

Here's a pic from when they were "cool".

Ashton + Trucker Hat = PUNkD!

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...zywB6-cN81scKV

The Gamma Phi Beta Christopher Radko ornament can be seen here --

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...-beta-ornament

The pink crescent moon is fine but the greek letters are hideous!! First of all, they are burgundy - not our color - and the PHI is huge compared to the Gamma and Beta....ugh!

I still bought one though:o but when I hang it on my Christmas tree it is on the back side or near the bottom!