You said this perfectly.

Also, taxation and social welfare programs will still be necessary. I want Americans to become educated on what social welfare entails and who benefits from it. There are a lot of misconceptions that fuel the apprehension and fear. And I have yet to meet a nonindependtly wealth American who isn't who can say with 100% certainty that they will never need a social safety net. I hear people scoff at taxation and social welfare programs but they have needed, or will need due to unforeseen circumstances, unemployment checks or have no issue with people receiving social security checks. It's often just a perception that they deserve it because they are hardworking people who have fallen on unpredictably hard times. However, they always believed that social welfare is about recipients of AFDC and foodstamps who are lazy and undeserving moochers who would rather live off of everyone else instead of get their own resources.

My thoughts on the whole facebook thing:

One of my friends (a McCain supporter), posted a note containing her thoughts on the election, her disappointment in her candidate not winning, and her hopefulness that most Americans will unite in support of Obama, at least until he makes his first big mistake. She then posted the transcript from McCain's concession speech (which, I think I mentioned this about 100 times before but I really thought it was a great speech).

The comments to the note were fairly pessimistic. Saying that Obama's election has already made the economy tank more, etc. I saw a couple of things, however.

1. Hopefulness among McCain supporters that Obama's election will cause the GOP to rally, making them a better working campaigning machine.

2. Willingness to see that, regardless of their disappointment in the results of the election, that change will be coming. I think, however, that had McCain won, there would have been change as well. Just maybe a different kind of change, not necessarily for the worse, but different.

3. Is it the general feeling between parties that the people that voted for the opposite candidate are uneducated? I keep seeing "all those uneducated people that voted for Obama" or "all those uneducated people that voted for McCain." I don't consider myself uneducated, nor do I consider most of my friends that voted for McCain uneducated, but I'll have to say I'm friends with a bunch of highly educated people, where their collective hundreds of college degrees would make a suitable step stool for washing my second floor windows from the outside.

I suppose that many of those whose votes solely hinged on race, or gender, or party could be considered uneducated. But what, truly, is uneducated? The beauty of American politics as it stands today is that all citizens, over 18, who have taken the necessary steps toward voting on election day, are able to cast their ballots, regardless of their reasons for voting for particular candidates.

It concerns me that many of my friends on both sides of the aisle seem to have decided that, because they are "educated," take an interest in the issues, have researched their candidates (which, I'm not even sure that most of my "educated" friends did), have debated their positions, etc., then it should be THEIR voice heard over the "unwashed masses." However, since we've gone to a winner-take-all system with electoral ballots, every person's voice is equal to every other person who chooses to vote within their state. I have to wonder if many of my friends, however educated they may be, really understand this system.

I've digressed, and I have no idea how to fix that, so there ya go.

^^well put, AlphaGam...

uneducated? really? you know, the system works perfectly the way it is: everyone is equal and has a voice. its been my experience that some "educated" people are more closed minded than others. America is the most diverse nation on earth, so shouldnt the votes be as well?

I think, unfortunately, that it has become all too common among hyper-partisans in politics and elsewhere to make the assumption that people who disagree with them obviously do not understand how things really are. "Because if you really understood, you would obviously agree with me."

Not a helpful, or truthful, perspective at all. Just the opposite, actually.

I'd like to say "If you really understood the electoral ballot system, you would obviously agree with me (that your vote counts no more than anyone else's, and just because you are educated does not mean many other educated people voted for the opposing candidate)."

Exactly - to put it bluntly, calling the other side stupid is a very easy way to get in a criticism, without doing any actual thinking about the issues.

In my experience, when this kind of charge comes from the right the other side is often "stupid." When it comes from the left, the other side is often "unenlightened."

Personally, I always thought that a hallmark of being smart and enlightened is the awareness that one can be wrong.

"unenlightened" is a bit benign, I've heard charges from the left that are much worse.

"stupid" from the right is pretty much dead on.

True statment and why I'm sick to death of this election cycle.

LOL, true. I was trying to go for one, all-encompassing word.

Yeah, but I think we all kid ourselves that the things we might be wrong about are complex and nuanced and require great insight even to grasp the issue, but people who actually vote differently than we do clearly base their votes on the most simplistic, self-interested, or bigoted reasons.

A schoolmate of mine, someone I've known since before either of us even applied to this school, just put up an American flag with Communist symbols photoshopped onto it on her facebook. :mad: I don't think I've ever been so angry at her and she's talked a lot of crap over the last few months. I am EXCITED for our future as a nation. I'm ready for what's in my sig to come true. I don't want to be divided into Obama supporters and McCain supporters anymore, we are one whole country and it's time we acted like it. Saying we're becoming Communists or that we're "damned to hell" or whatever despicable crud she's spouting is a wedge that divides us, NOT a joke, NOT good fun, NOT sarcasm to make a point. Just....DAMN, JUST GET WITH IT. :mad:

I think you need to get over it. As someone previously said, people have the right to be disappointed and frightened over the unknown. Although we know that most of these people have no idea what socialism and communism really are, no one knows how well the Obama presidency will do. However, most of these people will eventually calm down and be open to the possibilities. Your friend isn't using her disappointment or fear in a racially charged manner or trying to incite a riot leading to anarchy.

I think that Dems and liberals (and Obama supporters who don't fall into those categories) are being really hypocritical. Many of these people were talking about moving to Canada when Bush was elected/reelected and never stopped criticizing Bush. It can be said that the Bush presidency wouldn't have been as bad if everyone had worked together and JUST GOTTEN WITH IT. But that wasn't enough to get people to get over these stupid Repub, Dem, liberal, conservative divides.** So folks shouldn't act brand new now as if an Obama presidency suddenly means nonpartisanism and a unified America. What change people are waiting for doesn't happen so quickly.

** And I still hate Dems and Repubs. But I can get with it. :p

I do agree with 90% of what you said. Forward thinking and movement are hard to do with irreconcilable differences in belief.

People who choose not to like the color red will never like the color red even if that color looks best on them. At least in the United States, someone can live like this if they choose to.

But we were asked to make sacrifices by President Obama. Yes... Before you jump down my throat the issue I am discussing is for example, I could make sacrifices normally in my life, but I just choose not to do so... However, the repercussion for being resolute in my inability to adjust with a sacrifice, means I get left behind...

IMHO, President Obama will at least attempt to be straightforward on most of the pitfalls. But who knows, he might not be able do so.

On Oprah today they were talking about whether or not Obama could take us back to the "good old days" where Democrats and Republicans sat down to dinner, enjoyed fellowship, and hashed out a few deals in the process.

I have no insight here. I think at this point I'm typing random nonsensical tidbits.

I LIKE PICKLE JUICE!

I heart you. That is exactly what I've been feeling for the past couple of days. Many of the same people who have Bush-bashed for 8 years are now crying foul because others are disappointed with the election results. I myself said that I wasn't going to watch any news for months because I couldn't stand all the Obama ass-kissing. That lasted 24 hours. I got over my pity party and am interested to see what will happen. Not excited - interested. But maybe in a few months I can be excited. I definitely don't want him to fail. And it's actually Pelosi and Reid that I fear more than Obama.

The repurcussions will be the same as they have been during every presidency. This time around, people are just more scared than they normally are. As my imaginary-buddy Keith Olberman asked "...is a great deal of this psychological....?" Sure, the economy sucks and now there is a threat to increase unemployment in the public sector but if people didn't get the point Before Barack, let's not fall apart if they don't get the point After Barack.

I was just about to get you on that "Obama asked us..." stuff. :p

So I'm assuming you didn't want to be divided into Bush supporters and Bush critics previously, right? You thought everyone should just unite behind Bush, and get with it?

Not picking on you, but as I've mentioned before, not everyone is "excited" for the future with Obama. There are some who will have to be convinced that he was the better choice. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion - but you can't expect people to jump on the Obama bandwagon a couple of days after the election.

It's much easier to talk about unity when you want everyone to unify behind your candidate of choice...

I think you and I are examples of the people who can be supportive of the administration without actually drinking the Kool-Aid. :) There are a lot of us out there.

So, yes, I am an Independent who voted for Obama, support Obama, have a wave of emotions over his win, and think this country is ready for something better. But I am still annoyed by his speech pattern and am still waiting for him to earn the praise that he is receiving. And if I read or hear one more person type or say "Obama is asking us to...." (you aren't the only one, AKA Monet :)), I will...continue to do what I've been doing: HECKLE.

I wish it was different back then than it is today, because people are seriously considering those "repercussions" JUST BECAUSE President Obama was elected to the POTUS.

And Olbermann is correct in that this lunacy has something to be a great deal of psychological... (He he--what did I say in my previous posts... ;) ).

And I KNOW there will be whiners after the fact--even if you give stupid a chance--whiners will appear outta the woodworks even after deadlines were set.

Bill Maher's Exit Strategy for Republicans--the country they can run to as a result of the election--IRAQ... LOL

To be honest, I couldn't care less if the non-Obama supporters get over it. That's their damn business if they don't. They'll just have to learn the hard way. Let them continue to live in the fantasy world that they're in. I don't know where they've been, but where I'm sitting, things have been hard as hell, the economy is in the septic tank, and there wasn't a glimmer of HOPE until Nov. 4th. Now, that there is some semblance of normalcy returning to our lives, the folks that love the status quo are getting all riled up. However, we need to realize that some people just can't be pleased, nor do they WANT to be pleased, moreso because President-elect Obama is Black.

My favorite quote has ALWAYS been "I can show you better than I can tell you" and that will most certainly be effect for the Obama/Biden administration. He'll just have to show the naysayers that he means business. When life improves, there will STILL be people that don't want to admit it. Why? Because President-elect Obama is Black and they would rather saw off their left leg with a rusty butter knife than to admit it. However, everyone can't be pleased. Let them sit their unhappy, uptight, and cranky asses on the sidelines while we move forward to a better future.

Yes, racism is ugly. Yes, racism is alive and well. Yes, it makes us angry, especially in a society where everyone SHOULD be progressive thinkers. However, the only appropriate thing to do is to ATTEMPT to educate. If that doesn't work, tell them to shut the hell up, sit the hell down, and move the hell on. Life is too short to waste on ignorant people that will go to their graves with their ignorant thoughts.

Well, it's the internet. You should read what they say about soccer teams, make the reaction to Obama's win look like a love fest.

Just saw this and am co-signing.

This . . . this just doesn't . . . well, this doesn't really apply to anything, at all.

Don't get me wrong - it's wonderful prose. But who are you talking to? Seriously - who?

That is not how I think. I don't expect everyone to hug and sing Kumbaya tomorrow. However, implying that our leader is making us into Communists and forcing us to denounce our individual religions (something else she said) does, in fact, aim to incite fear in others so that they will rebel. She honestly wanted others to agree with her that anyone other than hardcore conservative Repubs are to be feared and rebuked because they will ruin the country. She says that the Dems are taking over so bump "unity" it's now the body of Christ out for themselves, because obviously the two can't overlap (I went to her because she is someone I know to usually be reasonable, so we've been talking about this for hours. These are honestly her words and thoughts). As a Dem, that's RIDICULOUS. I stopped her on several points and it turned out she was very uninformed. Some guy told her that Obama never mentioned uniting the nation in his speech and that he just wants the liberals to take over and anyone else will have to change their ideals to his. :rolleyes: Since she didn't watch the speech, she just took it all as truth and that's what she based everything on. I can't make her like the man and I don't aim to--but if I just "got over it" then someone I care about would continue living in fear, not just of the unknown, but of a lie.

And for whoever said did I want to unite behind Bush, I'll say what I told her: Yeah, I was pissed when Bush got (re)elected. Quite frankly, I think he was the most hard-headed, bumbling idiot ever to come into office during my awareness of governmental dealings (age 8+). I've made plenty of inappropriate jokes at his expense (some I regret) and can't wait for him to get out. But I still tried to respect the fact that he was my leader and that's that. As far as I can remember, I never attended a protest against him because that sort of division wouldn't help anyone. I never openly bashed him. I constantly prayed that God would bless him with wisdom and guidance and good health. And, no matter what stupid "Canada" jokes I made, I never meant them. America is a wonderful country and that remains true no matter who the leader is. Non-Obama supporters have a right to grieve their loss...but as much as we support our candidate, blatantly tearing down the other candidate and his supporters to this extent wasn't okay before the election and it's not okay now, especially not in the name of being "Christian." That's backward and I told her so. If she was a stranger off the street, I wouldn't waste my breath, but she's not so I spoke my mind and it paid off. The tension is gone and we understand each other a lot better now, which was the point of addressing it in the first place.

^^^Christiangirl, your post is well written.

How come what this girl says bothers you so much?

Fixed that for you... :D

Thanks, Monet. At first, I wasn't sure...it was just a gut reaction, you know? But I've thought about it and I guess...well, I've been under attack for supporting Obama, which I expected but it's made me a little touchy nonetheless. Then, having someone I've bonded with say Democrats are evil and ungodly...if it'd been a stranger, I'd have been mad but brushed it off fairly quickly. But hearing someone I know say it made me wonder if that's really what she thinks of me and my family! I know it wasn't personal, but it was such a harsh and unfair judgement. Plus, the fact that she didn't even know what she was talking about...this girl is studying to be a lawyer. If she acts like this based on what some random guy said with no proof, then that makes ME fear for the future! :rolleyes:

Like some HOTT yoga... Like some muy caliente Cholula? Like some Voodoo Sauce? Like some 5 stars in a dive Phad Thai restaurant... :D

Delicious diversity... Fusion!!! YAAY!!!

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

For you lame jokers who are sweatin' and hatin' on our new president, shut up and just...... http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif

Welp, just like PB said, folks are still sweatin' President Obama...

PM me though, I've got sumthin' for that which you speak of...

To counteract what she says though is called "assertive speech"--the key is when she said it to you, how did you feel? Exactly? Angry, hurt, alienated? What? Don't tell me, think about it for yourself.

Then once you identify your feeling, you could ask her in this format:

When you say XYZ, I feel ABC and I wonder how you feel about me and my family?

Because 9X outta 10, she is hearing these incendiary comments from people she highly respects without questioning their authority...

That does not mean you stop being friends with her, it just means the nature of your relationship changes. And you can tell her so...

Obama is the 44th president right? Everybody was cool 43 presidents earlier, but now jokers are.......http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/42.gif

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

Perhaps you missed the comments like:

Good. There are so many more interesting things to be :mad: over. :)

Like mindless drones? No, thanks. There's a middle ground.

You realize how ridiculous this line of thinking is, right? Like DST said, there's a middle line to be drawn, and expecting people to just follow blindly because you like the candidate in question, it's just not realistic.

That's not to say that, if things improve, people won't back him. But telling people to "shut up" is ignoring reality and forcing your own beliefs onto others.

People on this thread aren't denying that racism is out there. They're not denying that racism is affecting people's judgment on Obama. There will always be people who will hate Obama because of the color of his skin. There will always be people who will let their prejudices color their better judgment.

But...there are also people who aren't excited about a Obama presidency for other reasons. People who don't like his foreign policy. People who aren't thrilled about his tax platform, or his domestic platform, or something. People who have reasons that go beyond the color of his skin.

It scares me a little that there are people who think that 100% of the people should accept his policies right away, or that, just because he may be better than Bush (an admittedly low standard), that he'll have 100% approval on the merits.

He'll never be accepted 100%, even by those who are looking beyond race. People should realize that and accept that, and not criticize those who aren't ready to back him.

I'm speaking in general (to no one in particular, here or otherwise). And most certainly, my comment applies. The thread may have "evolved" since then, but my comment responds to the questions/comments posed by the OP. My post wasn't meant to stop, interrupt or quiet the discussion. I rolled in, started reading, and responded.

Any way it goes, he will be the president of the U.S. Non-supporters are entitled to their opinion. Everyone can and should be critical of their leadership, but in the end he is our (supporters, non-supporters) President. Some folks didn't like Bush or his policies, but he was our Prez for 8 yrs.:( Glad that $h!t is over.:D

Huh???