I'm sure some of my fraternity's chapters haze.

Strike that -- I know that many do.

Many also do not. Our national policy forbids it. I didn't have to do anything terrible/stupid during my pledging process (I was a colonist, so my experience was atypical, but my chapter absolutely does not haze).

Nice first post, btw. Did you really register just to spew that?

That's insulting.

It's also ill informed and childish.

You don't have to be hazed to be a man.

Some would argue that real men don't take any crap from anyone.

Especially hazing.

Show your real manhood -- eliminate hazing.

Just because that's the way it's been in the past doesn't make it right.

DeltAlum, what an EXCELLENT response and very well stated!!!!:D I totally agree!!!!! This is similar to what we tell our chapters at very Regional Conclave and International Conference.


ZBT: "Inspriring Todays College Men to Become Leaders Of Tomorrow."

If a 'real man' wants to join a fraternity then he probably wants to join the best fraternity at his campus. The one that has the biggest parties, best reputation, best alumni connections, nicest house, etc.

Yes he's going to need to make sacrifices, nothing worthwhile is ever gained without sacrifice.

If a man gets into Harvard and drops out to go to community college because Harvard was too hard, does that means he's a real man?

Yes. Perhaps not that studious or prepared for a 4 year University yet, but still a "real man" depending on what else he has going on and is looking forward to.

There are much greater things to accomplish than graduating from Harvard.

You miss the point. A real man strives to be the best in all aspects of his life, academics, social, fraternal, etc. A real man doesn't sell himself short because he's afraid of making sacrifice.

Oh was I to infer that the man who left Harvard was afraid of sacrifice and lazy? :)

I just don't think he should be willing to sacrifice his dignity or self-respect.

If I got a bid from a great fraternity and passed on it because I was too afraid of some push-ups then I would say I didn't have much in the way of self-respect in the first place.

So the fraternity that bids you will tell you that all you have to do is some push ups?

I wouldn't say push-ups are an affront to dignity or self-respect. I'm all for physical fitness.

But since you said this hypothetical pnm passed because of push-ups, at least it is obvious that it is discussed during recruitment. So yes, in that case, an informed choice could be made by a pnm. I wasn't aware that that sort of thing was discussed during recruitment, so color me impressed.

I was under the impression that hazing (and some activities that might be construed as hazing, some that might not) was not really discussed with pnm. I'd have to say that IF your "brotherhood building activities" could be discussed with pnm, or an advisor, or a university official, you are probably on the right track. I just don't know that you could do that with some activities that I am personally familiar with, or some I have been made aware of through other people and news reports.

To borrow something from the post above this one of yours:
http://images.despair.com/products/d.../tradition.jpg

Bull.

Depend what he does with his life afterward. The second richest man in the world dropped out of Harvard, didn't even finish college.