Oh, I realize that. My point isn't to say that all alums are accepting of the call and never get pushy, I was just trying to counter the "it will be the very rare phone call that Mom says, 'OKTHXBYE.'" comment because it does happen, at least in my own experience.

As I'm always so eager to point out no matter what the topic, some people (usually a very small percentage) are just nuts, and they aren't going to act right no matter what you do.

I suspect the vast majority of women called, although they may ask why, accept the response with dignity and good manners.

The ones who are going to pitch a fit are probably going to pitch it anyway; it's just a question of who initiates the call and how high up the organization chain they try to go.

(I don't expect any craziness ever to change the results of the chapter's decision, but I'm afraid there are always going to be a few wacky people who try to influence outcomes. We shouldn't let those jerks cause us to abandon a policy if it's a good one for other reasons.)

MS stays in the room. If someone didn't/couldn't attend MS or left the room because a certain PNM was being discussed that was NOT supposed to be shared with them even though they were initiated sisters and members of the chapter. Did they get told? Almost certainly. Does this mean you have to tell Suzie Alumna why her daughter would get cut? No.

Unless your sorority has a RULE that you have to do so. In which case, I don't think an individual chapter gets to decide that they're above policy.

And the advantage of such a specific rules is that you'd hope the chapter would make sure they had a "good" reason, I guess.

Is that right, DGDramaDawg?

I would guess that some chapters might be less likely to cut a girl if they knew they'd have to make that phone call. Then again, this goes back to the fact that the chapter isn't under obligation to tell the alum WHY (at least, I don't know of any sororities that have policies that require chapters to release that information, but maybe I'm wrong?)... so reasoning behind cuts wouldn't need to be any better or worse, so to speak, than if the rushee was not a legacy and they didn't have to make "the call."

Oh, I misunderstood your early post. I thought there were groups who had to say why as per their policy.

Okay, I want to play the devil's advocate here. Our chapter policy (I don't have the advisor's guide here to see if it's an international one or not) has always been to notify anyone who has sent a rec for a legacy of her status if she's dropped (or given a bid, or went to another GLO).

Let's say that Pam PNM is a direct legacy to Alpha Chapter. She has perfect grades, perfect activities, everything you could ask for in a PNM. Alpha Chapter strings her along to one of the last parties, then after a tirade by an active sister, cuts her. Every other GLO has released Pam for being such a sure-fire legacy, so she is now completely out of choices.

Do you think her mother/grandmother/greatgrandmother deserves a call?

What if a sister breaks ranks and tells Pam why she was cut?

Do you think Pam's adult enough emotionally to handle this by talking to the stranger assigned to her as a rush counselor?

I think Alpha Chapter might get some interesting feedback from the GLO after recruitment.

I think her family member deserves a call. I don't know that it really does anyone any good for Pam to know why she was cut, and I think the member should be reprimanded for violating the secrecy of MS if she actually told Pam (as opposed to telling the mom if the policy allows it). And although I think Pan is probably adult enough to handle talking to her rush counselor, she probably will really want to talk to her mom more. And under the circumstances, I think that's okay.

I think I quoted the wrong post earlier, meaning to quote a post that questioned why an alum should be contacted at all.

You're absolutely right. From the years I've gone through recruitment as an active AND as an alum & adviser, conversations that went on during MS do not leave the room. Sister or not, if she's NOT in the room when the conversation took place, it is not her business to know what was discussed.

This is the way SK does it. Perhaps other orgs do it differently. To say it's BS is just ignorant b/c AF, you're NOT a member of SK so you don't know what goes on during Sigma Kappa MS.

So you wouldn't be allowed to tell a mom who was a member that her daughter had been cut at all or you wouldn't be allowed to tell her was the MS discussion was about?

My memories of MS and most rules for my group are very out of date if they were ever accurate, but to me they're two different issues.

MS discussion is almost like it should never be spoken of again with anyone, but party lists once set seem like they are something else. It's a yes or no kind of thing, and it will be pretty public once the pnms pick up their invites or attend the parties. You are just (maybe) giving the alumna member a heads up as far as timing.

You wouldn't want members blabbing the info to random people because it would be bad manners, counterproductive, and invite a discussion that did breach MS, but the alumna member isn't a random person.

ETA: I'm just saying this as my opinion generally. I'm not trying to say what I think anyone's real policies are.

We would of course contact the alumna, mother, sister, aunt, etc. We would call her, explain to her that the PNM was cut and let her know that it was the chapters decision. We would NOT tell her any specific reasons like the PNM was rude, hostile, didn't fit in, etc. There's no need to give any specifics like that though I do understand that most alums would want to know. Sadly, too many of them forget that the reasoning behind the cuts are the chapters prerogatives and not the advisers yet we are the ones that bare the burden of informing them.

Quite frankly, that chapter sounds like such a bunch of a-holes that I think the last thing they're going to worry about is how Pam or her mom/grandma etc feels.

All I know is that Kappa doesn't notify those who recommended legacies if a cut occurs. We can tell all those who sent recs where the PNM pledged, if at all, but only after Bid Day.

I can understand why alumnae would want the call if their daughters were released. However, I cannot see the conversation not going to the "why" territory at best or disintegrating into an argument at worst. Having a non-notification policy just keeps it from even going there.