Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429365)

Unfortunately for black women, some of the people who "represent" them have been poor examples.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429365)

See: Cynthia McKinney. I don't know that anyone would consider her a civil rights activist, but I imagine she does in some sense.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429309)

I agree with this. I don't judge on entirely on media coverage. But lets be honest. I can say "you know, most people I know could give a damn about Anna Nicole", but people still do care, the discussion is out there. Thats why I say its tough for yall (and me, in other matters) to say that our surroundings and are feelings are reflective of society at large.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429309)

I do agree, its not that feasible, but I don't think that removes it from the valid comparison category. I don't think the reason for a lack of protest regarding rap is the fact that its not feasible to get rid of it. I think that may impact some people's decisions, but I think there are more pervasive factors. I simply think that people aren't as offended by rap, and therefore less action is taken. The question then becomes, why aren't they as offended? I think there are many people who would give lipservice, saying sure, it offends me, but thats where the protest ends. I think this contrasts greatly with the Duke or Imus situation, wherein lies the double standard, at least from my perspective.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429380)

Nobody said there weren't excellent black female leaders, rather, you mentioned that there were negative images of black women, and she's someone who could be tied into such perceptions.

Originally Posted by laylo (Post 1429383)

But in the case of hip hop there isn't an easy action we can take against it, such as calling an organization and demanding that an employee be fired. For the most part all we can do to combat it is to discuss, write, and teach, and a whole lot of people are doing that.

Originally Posted by laylo (Post 1429383)

The discussion is out there, but it is minimal. And the discussion is also out there about hip hop, but there isn't a hot story right now that has everyone talking at the same time. Discussion about Imus will fade quickly as the story gets old, but discussion of offensive hip hop will remain.



I would argue that most people only paid lipservice to the Imus situation as well. And the number of people who went further is far smaller than the number who have gone further concerning hip hop over the years. But in the case of hip hop there isn't an easy action we can take against it, such as calling an organization and demanding that an employee be fired. For the most part all we can do to combat it is to discuss, write, and teach, and a whole lot of people are doing that.

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974 (Post 1429392)

Where we spend our $$$$$ may do more than we think though. I noticed with Imus, that once his sponsors started pullng from his show, he went from a 2 week suspension, to being booted from MSNBC, to being fired from CBS. FAST.

Money talks. Perhaps if we threatened to stop patronizing those companies that use those rappers that make their money from degrading women(ie Snoop Dogg/ 50 Cent/etc.) as their spokensperson(s) it will cause the same type of chain reaction. Some companies also own music labels that specialize in promoting artist that make this type of music (ex. Sony). Boycotting not only the label but the company itself would definitely get their attention. I'm sure if Sony saw a dip in their playstation, computer, etc. sales (especially during the holiday season), they would take notice.

In short, let's start hitting people in the pocketbook - not only the rappers but those that sponsor and promote it as well.

Disclaimer - when I say "rappers" I only mean those that degrade/humilate women in their lyrics. :)

Originally Posted by Little32 (Post 1429130)

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429406)

As much as I'd like to think this is true, I really think we're overestimating Americans. I agree that the majority of people in the Imus situation didn't take their protest to the next level, but then, they didn't have time to. I wonder what would have happened in a more prolonged situation involving extended protests, boycotts, etc. I don't think it would have been a situation where a majority of people are doing it, but I still think it would be of a higher intensity than other things we're discussing.

Originally Posted by luv4denzel (Post 1429337)

I have to say that as an African-American woman, Imus' comments on the air were insulting, degrading, ignorant, and uncalled for. His apology (IMO) wasn't sincere. The fact remains that he called a group of women a bunch of whores. Insult to injury--"nappy-headed hos". He knew when he made that comment that he was as wrong as two left shoes. I say that so-called apology wasn't sincere because he wasn't apologizing for what he said. He did that to save face, and probably because the big wigs who pay him $8 million a year told him to "just say you're sorry, and they'll forget the whole thing in a couple of days." Would he have apologized if he had made such comments in the privacy of his home as opposed to on the air? Probably not.

I don't think that firing him is going to be productive at all. When this first popped off, CBS had no intentions of firing Imus. They decided to 'suspend' him for a couple of weeks. This so-called suspension wasn't scheduled to begin until next week. Right there, you can clearly see how serious they were taking this. The decision to fire Imus (and we all know this) had nothing to do with morals or the people of CBS being equally outraged by Imus' remarks. That was BUSINESS decision. When the big time sponsors decided to jump from the sinking ship of Imus, CBS saw rivers of money sailing away from them. There are many people out there now doing a happy dance that Imus is gone, but not me. I'm shaking my head. Where was all this outrage when Nelly was sliding a credit card through a sista's behind, and when another rapper claimed he had "hos in different area codes"? Imus made those remarks because that's how he felt. I'm sure he thought he'd dodge the bullet of outrage from our community with that half-assed apology, but he was sadly mistaken. If I'm being devil's advocate here, I have to say that I honestly don't believe that anything will change. There will still be rap songs with sistas being degraded and disrespected. There will still be half-naked women dancing and shaking in the videos with money being thrown at them as if they're exotic dancers in men's clubs. And while I applaud all the efforts made to make these artists accountable for the lyrics of their songs, there hasn't been much progress in that area. I believe in free speech, but I don't believe you have to say and promote degrading things about women to validate yourself as an artist. I could almost be happy about this Imus firing thing if I honestly thought that something productive would come of it. This is NOT a victory.

If I'm being honest here, I have to say that I am guilty of nodding my head or tapping my feet to the beat of a rap song in which we as African-American women are degraded, disrespected, and insulted. In light of this Imus situation, I took a long look at myself. I went through my extensive collection of music to take stock of how much money I've put into patronizing (and therefore supporting)music that has a tendency to degrade, insult, and disrespect me. I've helped these artists get homes, cars, jewelry, and the stamp of approval to continue to say the things they say, and now I'm insulted because a white man said it? I have to clean house--starting with my own. While I've stopped watching those videos years ago, I cannot continue to support artists who degrade, insult and disrespect us--AND I WON'T. I am raising two boys. If I'm nodding my head to that mess, what message do I send to my sons about women? I am a woman, in every sense of the word: intelligent, strong, spiritual, confident, and much more--and I don't need hip-hop artists to validate that. The music industry is BIG BUSINESS. If we want these artists whose music we listen to and purchase, our children look up to (and some aspire to be like) to stop these kinds of lyrics, we'll have to pull a Proctor and Gamble, a GM, or a Sprint-Nextel. Their lack of financial backing got Imus off the air. If we all stopped buying and listening to this stuff, it's possible we could do the same damage. But like my Mama used to say: "Wishing don't make it so."

Originally Posted by laylo (Post 1429449)

While protesting involves anger, I don't think writing, discussing, and teaching involve less. Every time I've participated in these kinds of activities concerning hip hop, it was more intense for me than any issue I've actually protested. And regardless, it can only be called a double standard if those who protested Imus were doing nothing on the hip hop front. But the fact is there isn't anything more they can do because there is no step they can take that would prevent offensive rap from being produced and played.

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1429480)

"Shake Your Money Maker" by the Black Crowes? I hope not, I like that song.