GreekChat.com Forums - Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

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- - Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=85842)

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Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1419860)

So does this mean that the members were given alumna status, not because of their apperance or race, but because they had low-self esteem? :confused:

Duh, only confident girls allowed.

So restrained, OTW. Well played.

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Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1419718)

Oh Jesus H. Christ.

If HQ was so worried about how this would affect them expanding, they should have thought about that before they pulled this shit with DePauw. They couldn't even perform good damage control.

No disrespect to the DZ sisters, but I hope HQ's ass loses this case.

I couldn't agree more.

I would be VERY surprised if this does not affect DZs numbers going forward.

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Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1419798)

Not only DePauw, but they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot and will be lucky if they'll be accepted to colonize when future campuses open for expansion.

I agree. If they think it's bad that they didn't get TCU.... they've got a lot coming to them for future colonization efforts.

What school wants a sorority that will sue because choices THE SORORITY MADE?

I'm no school administrator, but I wouldn't!;)

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Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1419863)

So restrained, OTW. Well played.

I'm trying. I really am.

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Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1419846)

You're right, it is the campus PHC that decides which NPC will be invited to expand. However, to say that this won't be taken into consideration by the women who sit on PHC is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure they'll make the best decisions on what's right for their campus, but this situation's left DZ with a big fat Scarlet Letter, IMO.

I totally agree that this isn't good for Delta Zeta. Which is why I venture to guess that they (Delta Zeta HQ) may put expansion on "hold" for a while.

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You live in a perfect world. Sure, we'll have the open minded PNMs, but speaking as someone who used to be an impressionable 18 year old freshman, reps are everything. They don't give a shit about the litigation, but I'm thinking that there will be a lot of them who won't want to rush a sorority with a national bad rep even though it's at no fault of the individual chapters.

You may be right. Let me ask this. Do you (and or anyone else) feel that a PNM would rather be independent than become a member? Is the rep going to be "that bad"? I still feel that the local reputation will supercede the national in most if not all cases.

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No chapters have closed. See kddani's post above. She explains it nicely.

See below.

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Originally Posted by kddani (Post 1419838)

And that may very well dwindle. Membership numbers will be down in the fall, and the longer this gets dragged out, the worse the results will be. Those 157 chapters have to be maintained. Thinking that this won't have any affect on their numbers and reputation is a mistake.

I agree that numbers may decrease if the case goes to trial and/or gets dragged out. But again, will it be "so bad" that a PNM would rather be an independent than join? Especially as so many of y'all have pointed out that this is no fault of the individual chapters. I would guess that every Delta Zeta chapter will (should) be prepared to address this very issue during rush.

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I'd also imagine that alumnae donations will decrease greatly, and they probably already have. This lawsuit will cost an arm and a leg. DZ's finances are going to likely be in peril.

I'm sure this may be true on a national level but what about on the local (chapter) level? I'm not sure how most NPCs work, but with many NIC/IFCs, most alumni donations go directly to a local chapter or to a local housing corporation etc. And sure, the lawsuit will dip into their reserves. But I'm sure the law firm presented an fee agreement which Delta Zeta's in-house counsel reviewed and approved. Which actually makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of connection between Delta Zeta and Mr. O'Neill or his law firm. Or perhaps Mr. O'Neill is working pro bono.

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There's a saying in law school/the legal field "bad facts equals bad law". If DZ did want to set an example and create certain "rights" for sororities and fraternities, they picked a horrible case to bring. This is NOT the case you want to use to set an example.

I agree 100%. However, my concern is that regardless if we like it or not, if this case moves forward, loosing it may (note *may*) set some sort of bad precedent for GLOs down the line. As such, and as much as I'm sure many people don't want to do so, it might behoove GLOs to get "behind" Delta Zeta in this. Not advocating anyone do so, but at least take a wait and see view with respect to the merits of the case.

Is it good to file a lawsuit if losing it will create problems for GLOs down the line?

I don't claim to know everything about this situation or reorganizations, and I'm not speaking for my group at all, but I think this situation at DePauw indicated that GLOs might need some restrictions about how they do re-organizations and closings. While I don't want to open the door to a whole lot of meddling by colleges in GLO business, if no one else will lay down the rules, maybe the colleges need to to protect the interests of students who when they join one NPC organization for life expect to be active members the whole time they are in college (as long as they don't break the rules). Is that an unreasonable expectation for the students and the colleges to hold?

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Originally Posted by Heather17 (Post 1419808)

My point was--this likely will not kill them. And I would be willing to bet that many Greek org leaders are cheering them on. When the central notion that we are private membership organizations is eroded, we lose a lot. They have the means to stand up for that on all our behalves and I think that's good.

That's the spin. But that's not what DePauw did at all. DePauw stated that it did not agree with the manner in which the reorganization ws carried out (evicting women in the middle of the school year with little notice) and then chose to sever ties because of DZ reactions and actions after the fact. They never tried to choose who should be a member. Don't drink the Koolaid.

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Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl (Post 1419887)

Don't drink the Koolaid.

Ahhh, but which flavor Koolaid?

The pitcher served up by the media?

While I'm not as confident as SquirrelGirl that I know the whole truthful story, I'm not sure this is the re-organization I want to be the test case. I'm afraid it's going to do more harm than good.

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From DZ's website:

DePauw's leadership has engaged in an intentional campaign to defame Delta Zeta and inflicted significant harm on many of the student members of the sorority by deliberately exposing them to national ridicule.

....

The university's actions leave us with little recourse for uncovering the truth and restoring the good reputation of Delta Zeta. As a result, Delta Zeta filed a federal lawsuit this morning in Indiana, alleging DePauw University has defamed our organization and our members, broken its contractual obligations to the sorority, and interfered with our business relationships. While a lawsuit was our least preferred alternative, DePauw University must be held accountable for this unprecedented attack on our members and on the legitimate membership activities of our organization.

I am a little confused.

What, besides the "hey, we're severing our ties with Delta Zeta" letter did DePauw do to "defame" and create an "intentional campaign"????

Also - what "contractual obligation" does a university have to any GLO?

Is this because they won't be able to celebrate their blessed 100th?

All of this came to light because the ousted girls spoke up about it. Is DZ gonna sue them too?

I'm really interested what kind of crap they are feeding the 5 girls who decided to stay. They probably created a media toolkit since this will be in the spotlight again. :rolleyes:

And according to the USA Today article that DZ linked to, membership had been declining for the last DECADE. Why on EARTH do they want to be somewhere that no one wants to join???????? (besides the whole 100th celebration of course!)

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USA TODAY ARTICLE

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...sorority_N.htm

It is not unusual for sororities and fraternities to put less committed members on alumni status when a chapter is struggling. Typically, the strategy is used when students create disciplinary problems. In 1999, for example, DePauw's Phi Gamma Delta fraternity chapter placed current undergraduate members on graduate status, asked them moved out of the chapter house and started over with new members in 2000, the lawsuit notes.

WILL THEY PLEASE GIVE UP THE LESS COMMITTED CRAP!

Thanks & have a great day :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1419885)

Is it good to file a lawsuit if losing it will create problems for GLOs down the line?

No.

Frankly, I doubt this lawsuit was filed irrationally. And I doubt that any attorney worth a grain of salt is going to take a case of this type unless they feel they can win it or settle it out of court. Which leads me to believe there may be some merit behind this case.

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I don't claim to know everything about this situation or reorganizations, and I'm not speaking for my group at all, but I think this situation at DePauw indicated that GLOs might need some restrictions about how they do re-organizations and closings. While I don't want to open the door to a whole lot of meddling by colleges in GLO business, if no one else will lay down the rules, maybe the colleges need to to protect the interests of students who when they join one NPC organization for life expect to be active members the whole time they are in college (as long as they don't break the rules). Is that an unreasonable expectation for the students and the colleges to hold?

I understand and applaud your concept. However, I doubt any GLO wants any university to meddle in (or dictate) their fraternity/sorority business or policy.

If Depauw wanted, could they not require that Delta Zeta put into evidence materials related to their membership selection process or Initiation requirements as part of their case? We at work are often asked to provide materials for opposing counsel in times of litigation. It's part of the discovery process I believe. I'm sure there are lots of little things in secret parts here and their that when scrutinized by the right people can make anyone look bad. I agree this is a trainwreck.

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Originally Posted by DGMarie (Post 1419927)

That's a very, very good point, and one that is very valid.

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Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1419922)

I understand and applaud your concept. However, I doubt any GLO wants any university to meddle in (or dictate) their fraternity/sorority business or policy.

I agree about universities meddling in Greek business, it shouldn't happen.

However, in looking at the DePauw situation (especially after reading the statements from the University), the girls are DePauw students first. They went to DePauw for an education. If the university feels that the actions of the HQ were detrimental to the students' well-being, they have every right to say, "Hey...get the hell off the campus."

And now DZ's suing the school saying that the school was responsible for all the bad publicity? Uh, take a look in the mirror, HQ.

I know I may be out of line by saying this, but I hope DZ considers getting new authority soon.