Drawing any sort of large conclusions as to why a certain race or ethnicty joins a certain organization is very difficult to do, because you are bound to exclude some of the data you collect.

From personal experience, Asian American Greeks on the West Coast are VERY different than Asian Greeks everywhere else. This is probably due to Asian Americans having a bigger foothold in the communities and being more accepted.

Additionally, West Coast Asian American Greeks are generallymuch older than their East Coast (and rest of the country counterparts). The first organization founded outside of California (besides Rho Psi in 1916 at Cornell which has no collegiate members now), was my organization, Pi Delta Psi Fraternity, Inc., in 1994 in Binghamton, New York.

Moreover the reasons for creation are very different.

Pi Alpha Phi Fraternity was established in 1926 due to racial restrictions again Chinese Americans that prevented them from joining NIC orgs.
Sigma Phi Omega Sorority was established in 1949 as a haven for Japanese American women in response to the Anti-Japanese sentiment from WWII and following it.

My organization was established to unite various Asian cultures and provide a unifying voice and a haven for Asian American men.
Kappa Phi Lambda Sorority and other organizations established since the 1980's have generally followed this pattern of "Pan-Asian-ness", although it is interesting to note how South Asian American Greek orgs have developed their own niche as well.

While all of my brothers joined for different reasons, many joined because it promoted Asian culture and provided a Brotherhood that they needed.

There have been a few studies on Asian Americans in Greek orgs. One of the best is by Edith Wen-chu Chen which looks at Asian American women in White, Asian American, and Black sororities.

Her results show that the Asian American women in White sororities had no place to be comfortable or discuss their race/ethnicity - basically they had to conform.

Her results for Asian American women in Asian American sororities showed that it provided a haven where race and ethnicity issues could be discussed openly without fear of social ostricization.

Her results for the Asian American women in Black sororities showed that those women joined those organizations in order to transform how race is viewed in the U.S.

Note: She uses pseudonyms throughout the whole study, but uses real dates for Foundings, so it is clear which orgs are which.

Beta Tau: AKA
Pi Zeta Mu: DST
Gamma Phi Alpha: ZPhiB or SGRho (I can't remember)
Kappa Phi Kappa: SGRho or ZPhiB (I can't remember)

Grant it, this was done at UCLA, which is very different than East Coast schools. Her results show that all the Asian American women, except for one who was half Black half Asian, were in either ZPhiB or SGRho. Interviews with one member who was Filipina (and rejected) state:

"There was this social at the BT house, out in another part of town. And you had to dress up. They called it a tea but we didn't have any tea. (laughs) I stood out like a sore thumb. I was the only one who wasn't black. I was the only one. One thing happened that I kinda thought I was dog'd. I felt a little diss'd, like completely ignored. What happened was I was the first one to show up. And it turned out they gave prizes. And one of the door prizes was for the first person who showed up. They didn't give it to me. I didn't say anything. You know I wasn't like "Hey, wait a minute." But I think it would have been embarassing to give it to someone who wasn't black."

Karen then goes on to tell how she got rejected:

I got a letter in the mail a week after the tea saying "We regret to inform you..." But it was a real formal letter. And I assumed it was my G.P.A. But I ran into this girl, this woman who two days later came up to me. She was in BT. At the time I thought we were friends. And she was like "Karen, you know how it is, the voting process and everything. People just don't know you. And they have this impression of who you are because you're not Black". I think she said more than she was supposed to. Because another one of her sorority sisters was passing by and heard her and she was like, "Hilary, Hilary, come here." And that was it.

I think it's very interesting to see this. I in no way intend this to be a bash on a whole organization, because it clearly isn't. What I'm trying to show is that we all have preconceived notions of other races and ethnicities and stereotype them based on our experiences/beliefs. This episode just shows how one woman, who was Asian American, experience it when trying to join BT (AKA).

If anyone is interested in the study, it's REALLY good and well done. It's called "The Continuing Significance of Race: a Case Study of Asian American Women in White, Asian American, and African American Sororities"

Sorry for the long post!!

Latino Greeks were bigger at my school than the NPHC groups, for whatever reason. There were more Caribbean blacks than African-Americans, so most of them gravitated towards the Latino groups, since there seemed to be more cultural similarities with Latinos than with American blacks. This held true for my grad school too, but it was smack in the middle of a few large Latino neighborhoods. The Asian fraternities and sororities were even bigger at both places.

I think after high school, that kids of color will gravitate towards their own ethnic group--especially if they had to assimilate during high school. For a kid who was the only Black/Asian/Latino person in their grade, neighborhood, or social group growing up, it's seriously like being offered a drink of water after being in the desert for 18 years; this feeling is even stronger if the other kids of color have similar experience of never having black friends, being shunned by other Latinos, and such things like that. So, sometimes that explains how students of color seem to, in the words of white students, "self-segregate."

I don't intend to make any generalizations, but this was the experience of many of the students of color that I interacted with in college and graduate school. I had some of that same experience, but I ended up joining an NPC group for several reasons.

L.O.C.K.

Thanks for that, it sounds very interesting.

ETA: Do you have a link or a digital copy? I can't find it online and I'm not sure where to look on my school's Journal search.

Born and raised in Compton and have lived in Riverside, Tustin, Fullerton, Long Beach, Van Nuys, South Central LA, Los Feliz and currently Palos Verdes. I taught in LAUSD for 3 years before I became a college professor in Southern California.

If Blacks and Latinos were so familiar with each other in Southern California as your post implies, what accounts for all the racial tension in SoCal between these two groups? Black and Latinos in Spanish Harlem have never experienced the same type inter-racial conflicts that we have out here in California. Blacks and Latinos live side-by-side on the East Coast and in Chicago while in Los Angeles, usually what happens is that Blacks move when a sizable number of Latinos move in.

Even in Inglewood, there is almost a clear line between the Latino section (south of Century Blvd) and the predominantly Black section (north of Century Blvd). In Southern California more than Northern California, there are distinct pockets of Black folks and Latinos. Competition for low wage work is one issue that keeps these groups from unifying as does gangs based on racial identity. Sure, there are mixed groups but that is more the exception than the rule. Of course, with Black flight out of Southern California to the South, the few Blacks that do remain will have to interact with Latinos if they are to survive. I'm not basing my comments solely on personal observation but also on demographic statistics, incidents of hostility between the two groups and why so many Black folks initially refused to vote for Villaraigosa for mayor (when he was running against Hahn the first time). Blacks fear that with the growth of the Latino community that they will be pushed out. Just check out the message board on BlacknLA.com and see page after page of Black folks complaining about Latinos being favored over Blacks. I'm not weighing in on that debate but I can tell you everything between Blacks and Latinos in Southern California ain't peachy.

If you don't believe me: Google "tensions between blacks and Latinos in Los Angeles". You'll find page after page of articles about job competition, clashes over language and gang violence between the two groups.

PhDiva

Drolefille,

Oops! My bad, I didn't explain it well enough. I had trouble at first too when I first heard of it.

Go to ProQuest Database in your Library's Online Database List. You should see a tab for basic search. Then scroll down and click on Dissertations & Theses or ProQuest Digital Dissertations or something similar. Make sure it is checked, and then search.

If this doesn't work, look on your school library's website for Dissertation Databse International or something similar. Let me know if you get it!!!

Take Care,
Nate

You poor woman.

PhDiva,


I live and work in the area that you are writing about and I don't see it.

The century blvd "line" is of socio-economic area....meaning lower middle class and mid-middle class, at least that is the way that I see it.

People always move out of one area to another area when they are "movin' on up".

I also see you writing statistics, which *sometimes* don't reflect in the real world.

I am speaking from my experience and I have never been in nor witnessed this type of tension you are writing about.

Of course, my life experience is different from anyone else's on the planet. Oh, since I don't live in the city of LA, I didn't vote in the Mayoral elections, but from my understanding a lot of people had other issues with Villaraigosa and his agenda and I can see why people have/had those issues.

Thanks! I found it but now I have to decide if I'm just going to wait until I go to work or download it over dial up :p

Elephant Walk - :p C'mon Compton ain't bad compared to parts of South Central :)

Ms. Gwyn - We will have agree to disagree. :cool: I'm not dismissive of your personal experience because they are real and specific to you nor do I dismiss the statistics because they do reflect larger trends which may have been missed by individuals. You may have not experienced the tension but I know plenty of Latinos that have (esp. ones who were not from California). When I worked for LAUSD, there were times when I did some substitute teaching in predominantly Latino areas and I was met with racial epithets and outright hostility from some students and staff. I have personal experience too but I rely on the statistics because I can't assume everyone has experienced what I have.

There is a vast difference between Black/Latino coalitions on the west coast versus the east coast, however, which might account for more blacks joining Latino Greek organizations in that region. That was the point of my comment.

PhDiva

I think SoCal tensions have alot to do with the location, political climate, and history. SoCal, the entire Southwest for that matter, has had a history with discrimination against Latinos (Mexicans specifically), you also have to look at the proximity to the U.S.-Mexican border, which raises many issues including cultural assimilation (e.g. who is Really American?), I feel students are buying into the typical identity builder of making "the others", Latinos (Mexicans specifically being this other) and are raised with that thus joining a Latin Org will definitely not attract them.

I sometimes see this, I work with kids, and no surprise the Blacks kids sit together and the Latinos sit with one another, I work in a very conservative, segregated suburb, where issues like immigration are definitely debated heavily, I could only imagine that bordertowns have this at the forefront of their minds.

Miami has the same tension between African Americans and Hispanics.

I think its very humerous that there are Asian, and Latino "fraternities" now. What did they feel left out that we were not including them? HAHAHAHA. Im lucky we dont have this kind of discrace at my school.

Yeah.... the only "discrace" at your school is you. You are very "humerous" too. Question, is your mother also your aunt?

No, I am just lucky enough to go to a proper southern school where we dont allow those types of things to go on. My mom is not my aunt, but she would shoot buck shot in somone's eye for sayin it.

LONG LIVE DIXIE

So you don't want minorities in your fraternity but you think it's stupid for them to have their own?

The logic train went that way -> you missed it.