Agreed. Political Science, Business, and so on are generally thought to be good fraternity majors.

Great. One guy doesn't make a chapter. I know plenty of guys that are in bad chapters that I would consider friends and all around good guys.

You are being ridiculous. For your information...I do have expansive knowledge of the fraternity scene at OU. I almost went there....and I have family there. I have tons of friends there. I have been there plenty of times. Its not my opinion. Its the truth. I haven't heard it second hand..I have seen it first hand.

I never said the men in the fraternity were not good guys. I didn't say anything close to that. Thanks though. I said they were a bad chapter. There are bad chapters everywhere whether you like it or not. Sorry that I go to school at a major Southern university where greek life is extremely competetive and often times the bad are separated from the good. OU is like that. Same with Texas, Alabama, Ole Miss, UGA, Auburn, etc. etc.

Other than that, I never showed any disrespect for anyone. I acknowledged that KTSnake didn't go to OU and that I was well aware that SN had extremely good chapters at many schools that I have been to.

Thanks for the lecture though......and thanks for letting everyone know for the 1029387 time that hazing is illegal. I really could care less. We are all well aware of which lines can be crossed and which shouldn't. I don't need any sort of approval from someone on an online message board.......if you think me stating that a chapter is bad throws out your notion of a "Southern Gentleman" than so be it. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Hazing can help build men and women
 

Drunken driving or falling out of a window, inebriated, while partying, don't really constitute hazing to my way of thinking. Humiliating, terrorizing, injuring or killing...however...may be a bit excessive, although they are certainly effective for 1) building pledge class loyalty and solidarity 2) "toughening up" pledges for the trials they'll inevitably face later in life, and 3) providing a final mechanism for "weeding out" someone found (during the later stages of pledging) to be undesirable for membership.

- Prunetacos

Killing...........haha, classic.

No seriously, don't kill a pledge. It becomes a much greater bonding experience if you wait until the 10th week or so, and then make the pledges vote and kill one of their own.

Pledges
 

Any suggestions as to how they decide? Rock, paper, scissors? Draw straws? How about sending them out into a grizzly sanctuary, finding one of the animals, throw rocks at it, then run? The slowest pledge buys the farm. That should build ambition. Also, good exercise.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche

I was always up for a classic duel between pledges. Either with swords or black powder muskets at a distance of 35 paces.

Swords and Muskets and Pledges - Cool!!
 

Rifled, or unrifled muskets? Did you get to put on a Redcoat, or wear a coonskin cap? I hope nobody dressed up as Santa Anna. :D

Remember the Alamo!!

It is amazing how assumptions are made isnt it?

A well rounded Chapter has many from various fields dont they?

If hazing is invlolved as DeltAlum said who loses if they are caught?

Yours,, Mine, and ours are the ones who lose.

Laff while you may, but it does and will happen and can be seen so many times over on GC!

The escalation of costs because of R M insurance raises the cost of being in a Greek Organization and few PNMs will feel like they can,t afford it and or won't join.:(


Fun and games now, but when You anyone of You Graduate, why do you go back to Your School? For The School or Your Brothers and Sisters?

It depends on what is being done, hazing wise. You might be right about the costs for new members and how it may be a deterrent......but I really can't comment on that because paying dues.....no matter the cost is really not a big deal for my family.

I'll go back to my school to support athletics and for any huge SAE events that they may have in Austin.....such as founders day. I'll support UT much more from a standpoint of being in the Texas Exes Alumni Association than I will from being an SAE. Yeah, i'll make yearly donations to the chapter and i'll go to tailgates with other Alumni and my pledge brothers......but to be honest.......when I am middle aged and have a career.....being in a fraternity isn't going to be the highlight of my life or something that I make a point to really keep up with....aside from the activities that I mentioned. There comes a time when you need to move on. Every man in my family is Greek.....and they all have felt the same way.

Brother Tex;
Is this the record of your chapter?:
Sigma Alpha Epsilon Hazing Suspension Suspension through Fall 2005, Probation through Fall 2006

http://www.utexas.edu/student/regist.../app/appf.html

http://deanofstudents.utexas.edu/gle...n-Summer05.pdf

If so, just what happened from your side?

And remember what happened to my chapter when they not only ignored their first problem, they just kept right on going......down for the count.........
http://www.ups.edu/x4812.xml
And hazing was almost the least of their problems........

P.S.: Just found these on the Princeton Review new rankings of 2006-2007 Best 361 Schools:
http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...D=3&topicID=26 #1

http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...D=3&topicID=34 #8

http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...D=3&topicID=28 #13

http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...D=3&topicID=30 #2

http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...D=3&topicID=32 #3

http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...ID=1&topicID=4 #6

Does anyone there get an education? LOL ;>D

Tom,

I'll go back with hopes of seeing my friends and fraternity brothers, but my loyalty to my school exceeds that which I have towards my national fraternity.

Shiner-It took me years before I placed my school at an even level with my Greek life. Perhaps due to the anti-Greek Admin when I first started-now very different. To each their own.......
http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...=1&intbucketid=

Kay-Do not even give that any thought. It seems as if Shiner is a grad of UGA and will be going to Law School this year-perhaps at UG.

If you are questioning the academic integrity of the University of Texas.....then you must be severely out of the loop.

According to US News:
1.) Top 15 ranked Engineering School, (Number 1 in Petroleum Engineering)
2.) Top 15 Law School
3.) Top 20 Medical School
4.) Top 20 Business School
5.) Top 50 National University (America's Best Colleges)

The incident with SAE a couple years back, while none of your concern, was dealt with fairly easily, with little problems. Don't go by what you read on a website....thats all I am going to say.