I believe I did just refute the poster's view by showing how civic and community-minded my experience with NPHC groups has been. None of the experiences I have had fall under the categories of 1. thuggish 2. gang-bangin' 3. racial-inequality.


The University of Georgia is an excellent institution. It does not graduate accusatory people. The University must be failing in its mission when it is admitting/not graduating well-rounded students. It just frustrates me when I see examples of ignorance. And if the history of NPHC groups does not interest you, as I believe you stated earlier in this thread, then why do you continue posting and/or relating your experience with these groups?

My only hope is that you are very early in your college career.

Actually, despite my ridiculous ignorance, I'm pursuing a professional degree, on scholarship, at your preciously open minded university. Unfortunately, it seems the University of Georgia also graduates people who have achieved the proper state of tolerance, unless of course it is a conservative viewpoint. When I mentioned the the term "thug____", I was referring to a post made before me about how other people interpret NPHC groups. I'm sorry, but having big gatherings on campus where you freestyle and play loud rap music probably seems that way to many. My point was that at my school (and I imagine others) they display merely the party/racial pride side of their organization, and not the other aspects. Now, I could understand if you think all fraternities should diversify, or if you disagree with my feeling that IFC and NPC groups are the original greek life orgs, and that NPHC groups should be included too. What I have trouble with is your ridiculous mentality of thinking that people like me (conservative, who don't feel every group must be integrated by force, nor classified by unifying terms) is some sort of backwards redneck racist. I love people who preach tolerance, but then don't actually hold the attribute they use to degrade others.

You said I didn't refute the post about the groups being thuggish. I believe I did. I simply don't believe you have enough info on these groups to classify them. You yourself said you don't know anything about their history and don't care to know anything about them. I still wonder why you choose to keep posting on these issues in this thread. You have not addressed the points I have posed. I also wonder why you would form an opinion and then argue it based on very limited observations. Obviously you haven't had any meaningful interactions with the NPHC groups. You haven't attended any of their functions or don't have any friends in their groups. You are basing it on what you've seen and what you've heard from other people.

Also, I haven't stated any of my personal opinions about politics, affirmative action, diversity, rights of private groups, etc. You are reading into my posts and forming what you think are my opinions. I have also never made any statements on your politics, nor have I called you a redneck racist. Those are your own words. I have made no statements about your political views.

What questions have you posed? If you're interested enough to post them in line by line form I might better be able to answer them (and I happily will). You haven't refuted my point about them being "thuggish" because I never said they were. I said to some I'm sure they appear as such, and gave credit to the notion that probably is not an accurate portrayal of everything they do. Regarding why I keep posting, you're correct, it isn't out of interest into NPHC groups. Rather, it is in response to those who consider viewpoints like mine racist or backwards. Now, if I have wrongly projected some of what others have directed towards me as something you said, I apologize. However, I think you have referred to me several times as ignorant and I believe the term racist has come up. You are correct in that I don't know everything about NPHC groups, but I never claimed to. I never made a full judgement on them, other than to say they seem very different than the greek community I was in. Alright, as I said, if you really want answers to questions, post them and I will gladly answer.

I made the comment earlier about most black fraternities that I have seen being more like a street gang then a traditional fraternity and that is due to personal experience on my campus, and other campuses my friends attend. I can bring up many different examples, such as a girl in my ex-gf house @ Oklahoma State which got shot because black fraternity members werent allowed at their private function. A guy pulled out a pistol and started shooting through the door of the party. I can recall numerous such instances at OSU, my school, and others. I'm not saying this has never happened @ an IFC chapter, but it doesn't seem nearly as frequent.

I also see much of the hip-hop culture that black fraternities try so often to emulate as contributing to the "thuggish/gangster" image and not something any respected IFC fraternity, especially in the south would tolerate. In my opinion there is nothing respectable about emulating criminals in a higher learning institution and then calling yourself a fraternity which is supposed to be the cream of the crop of any given campus. Don't get me wrong, I like hip-hop at parties as dancing music and all, but there is a difference between listening to music and trying to live it.

I feel like these are a few of the many factors that give your organizations the image of being thuggish. I will repeat what I said earlier, i'm basing all this on my personal experience and I realize that not all black chapters fall into this category. This is my OPINION, and an honest one at that, I will not beat around the bush and be PC about it so i'm sorry if I hurt anybodys feelings.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't most opinions based on what you and your friends see and hear??

[. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do.

This is the ignorance I'm speaking of. You admit you have no real working knowledge of these groups, so how can you make a judgement on them? Do you know how they network with alumnae, how they run chapter meetings, or do educational programming? This is my first question.

My second question: Where did I ever refer to you as a racist?

I checked, and It was the f8whatever person who called me racist. I apologize, I was mistaken. You did however refer to my "stupidity" which I think you'd find to be quite inaccurate. Now, I still don't think NPHC groups put emphasis on the same things. Like I said previously, my greek life was almost to the level of cotillion...basically a display of how to be a professional adult in southern high society. Now, I'm sure the NPHC groups place an emphasis on being successful, but I don't imagine they place emphasis on how to act and live in southern high and professional society. I'm not sure of another way to explain this...alright, I'll try, and try without being offensive. In the circles I and others like me grow up and eventually seek careers in, class is of the utmost importance. Thus, some things in black culture aren't exactly desired in such circles. The idea of having a party entitled something along the lines of "Crunkfest" would be absolutely destroyed by our alumni, as would something like a step show. I realize everyone's culture is different, but what is perfectly acceptable in some may be completely unacceptable in others. I imagine these comments will provide for more claims of racism and ignorance from some on here, but note that I am merely trying to explain.

The "stupidity" remark was aimed at the post by bowsandtoes. I still think the "my group is older" remark in that particular post is a ridiculous cheap shot.

And re: bowsandtoes most recent post: if I'm going to attempt to classify an entire group, I base it on firsthand, personal interaction over an extended period of time.

Thanks, done with this thread.

Clearly it was because if it wasn't you would not have posted on them.

IFCs don't interest me in the least and that's why you'll never hear me comment on one.

:rolleyes:


Because I for one could care less about it. But, y ou won't hear me badmouth them especially when I never stop to see what they do.

I'm not going to toss the race card here BUT, it was an ignorant statement. Not knowing something is one thing BUT, to actually sit there and "judge" it is quite stupid don't you think?

Well, DUH, the issue of race will be brought up when you liken predominantly black (or Hispanic) organizations to gangs. Some of you should not be so naive as to think that it would not be.

Now, to give credit to that poster's perception: All GLOs (that spans from Kappa Alpha all the way to Kappa Alpha Psi) are technically a gang when using the loose definition of the term "gang." We have colors, symbols, and a certain groupthink mentality that overrides the individual. I have definitely been around black fraternities and seen where the MEMBERS (which is separate from the ORGANIZATION as a whole) acted as gang members. This is just a reminder that our organizations have thousands of members from different walks of life. Some members actually were (perhaps some still are) gangs members--others just subscribe to the violently expressed group think mentality.

It also depends on WHAT made you think "gangs" when you saw these black fraternities. Is it because they were doing some things that are traditions to their organization? If so, you might want to get to understand the reasoning behind their behaviors. However, if they were doing some violent or lude things (the poster mentioned shooting--but are you SURE that it was the frat members shooting as opposed to some nonmembers?) that place their organization in a negative light and create an antagonistic environment, then you are well within your right to perceive them in a negative light. Just know that the college educated gang mentality exists in some members of Sigma Chis as much as it exists in some members of Omega Psi Phi, for example. It isn't race-based.

Now this is where you went wrong. MOST as opposed to MANY?

Out of hundreds of thousands of members at the undergraduate and graduate level, out of the doctors and lawyers and educators and leaders--you're prepared to say that MOST act as a STREET gang? A STREET gang? Do you know what that entails and implies? :rolleyes:

Yes--WE as black people are bragging about founding dates in the 1900s. It isn't a big deal to white people being of the nature of racial domination in AmeriKKKan institutions back then and NOW, but it's a big deal to have had blacks (and Native Americans) in institutions of higher learning back then. Not to mention having the resources and foresight to found organizations that are now hundreds of thousands of members strong.

(How did this thread get HERE, btw? Where did School Daze go? :confused: )

Against all odds the founders of these organizations prayed, pursued, and conquered!

Well I agree with DSTChaos and why is it that the people who have ONLY observed and are non-nphc talking about our mentality as an organization...you will find in the media alone that binge drinking and sexual perversion is more linked to non-nphc orgs. [not all], but some.

Of course we will celebrate our founding years because of the conditions that our orgs. were founded upon. Unlike some of these non-nphc people we as a nphc greeks utilize our orgs. for the betterment of our people [humans] through service and exhibiting love and embrace our memebership for a lifetime!

So to say that we are thuggish and a street gang....yes we are hardcore about our values that our founders have impressed upon us and as far as the street gang mantality...we do take it to the streets with our service, our scholarship and showcasing our bond.. don't try to make us sound negative if you have ONLY observed and not actually spent time with any members in a NPHC org.

This is address to the generalizations that were posted in this forum.