GreekChat.com Forums - The Star-Spangled Banner in Spanish

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Rhetorical facetiousness? Well aside from the fact that you made a comment and I made a following comment, which is the norm of a discussion board, all defining aspects of that phrase seem to have been lost in your repeated statements.

You are right, you spoke of rights and I commented on them. No confusion there on either of our parts it looks like :)

Now let's look at this comment (one of several): "I think that gets at why I'm having a hard time getting worked-up over Nuestro Himno. Most native-born English speakers don't even know the whole song, so most native-born English speakers wouldn't know whether the translation draws on verses other than the first one."

From that I can infer that you don't understand why a native-born English speaker, who may not know the lyrics, can get "worked up" over a bastard translation. That's not really a stretch there for someone reading your words.

And I offered you analogies to help clear that lack of understanding on your part. If you don't sympathize with folks that's fine too, but you sure are going out of your way to post that in this thread.

I'm sure you know all sorts of veterans that may be upset by a singer that sings the anthem at a ball game, but I am not sure how many of them would now be willing to accept this "Song".

Good luck with your band and the obo. Were I to misspell an instrument's name, well I think I could live with that and continue to do so as a form of facetious rhetoric. :)

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Good Lord, Rudey, chill. I'm sorry that rhetorical facetiousness is lost on you.

But if you're going to be so literal, then at least do as you are so fond of advising other people: go back and read what I said, and notice how what you attribute to me doesn't match up with what I actually said. I have referred to "rights" exactly once in this thread, and when I did, it had nothing to do with "not knowing something."

What I said about rights was: "I'm of the opinion that by silently allowing countless celebrities to butcher the national anthem at sporting events over the last few decades, and by even applauding such horrors, Americans have forfeited the right to complain about anything anyone does to the national anthem." Would you understand it better if instead of saying "forfeited the right" I said "lost the moral highground"? "Lost credibility"? By applauding disrespect or even allowing it to go unchallenged, we lose our credibility when we later accuse others of disprespect.

My comments about people not even knowing the words of the national anthem were tied to the suggestion that Nuestro Himno is not a word-for-word translation but rather pushes an agenda. The point is how do people know that the second verse is not a translation -- direct or composite of parts of various original English verses -- if they don't know the English verses to begin with? One Harris poll showed that a majority of those polled can't even get the words to the first verse right.

Not strange at all, and I'm not sure that one or two comments constitutes "going on," but let me rephrase it for you: Whether you have good cause or not, you certainly have a right to be upset. I have a right to think you sound like an idiot, and you can't take that right away from me.

I know quite a few veterans who are not musicians themselves and who would disagree with you. I've listened to enough of them grumble when the national anthem is "performed" at ball games to know that it's not the ability of the musician but the lack of respect in the performance that offends them.

andOh, I do. Ironic even.

If English becomes the official language of the US, does that mean everybody has to learn it? [/facetious comment]

Quote:

Originally posted by xo_kathy
I'm not confused, I already knew it wasn't an exact translation - exact translations are often really hard to do. We need to remember that the song still needed to sound decent in terms of phrasing and such, so liberties may have been taken.

Personally, I think the only part that isn't pretty much a match is:
a symbol of victory
the glory of battle, the march toward liberty.
Throughout the night, they proclaimed: "We will defend it!"

That doesn't seem to be fostering any sort of agenda except to say the flag is a beautiful symbol and people should defend it. I don't think they should have called it "Our Hymn" though - something closer to "Star Spangled Banner" would have been better and omitting the word "Our" would have helped the cause.

First off, I said some folks may be confused. I did not say everyone.

That's the only part you think was not a match?

The 2nd verse in Spanish has this line:
"The time has come to break the chains."
Yet, the 2nd verse in English never mentions chains or breaking them. In fact the word chains (or breaking chains) is not in the entire song!

http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/ssb.shtml

I don't mean to jump on the semantics train, but I think it is clear that this translation is much more of an interpretation of The Star Spangled Banner...or better yet, the phrase commonly used in movies, "Inspired by a true story."

And calling it Our Hymn was not a wise choice...on that I agree with xo_kathy.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Now let's look at this comment (one of several): "I think that gets at why I'm having a hard time getting worked-up over Nuestro Himno. Most native-born English speakers don't even know the whole song, so most native-born English speakers wouldn't know whether the translation draws on verses other than the first one."

From that I can infer that you don't understand why a native-born English speaker, who may not know the lyrics, can get "worked up" over a bastard translation. That's not really a stretch there for someone reading your words.

You certainly have a right to infer that I "don't understand why a native-born English speaker, who may not know the lyrics, can get 'worked up' over a bastard translation," but you would infer incorrectly. I can understand it. I'm just not one of them, for the reasons I stated, and that was all I stated. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Quote:

And I offered you analogies to help clear that lack of understanding on your part. If you don't sympathize with folks that's fine too, but you sure are going out of your way to post that in this thread.

No, there was no lack of understanding on my part, and had there been, I don't think your analogies would have helped clear them up nearly as quickly as a simple explanation of a different perspective. The only thing I have gone out of my way to do was to try to respond to you instead of invoking Godwin's law.

Quote:

Good luck with your band . . .

Thanks -- I'll remember the good wishes if I'm ever in a band. ;)

I personally have a problem with it. I am of the belief that if you are living (whether legally or illegally) in a country you should know that countries predominant language.

I think the problem is that in the US we are so frickin accomadating of all the thousands of other languages that people are just to lazy to learn English. Why should they when everything (and I mean everything) is translated into Spanish for them (and you can get things translated in practically every language). We set ourselves up for this be being so accomadating.

Now, I haven't been to Europe but I've heard (so obviously don't quote me because I could be incorrect) that almost nothing is in English. Yeah you're going to find people who know the language (English) but otherwise you need to know their language.

I mean I wouldn't go to like Germany and expect everything to be in English for me. Unfortunately people expect it here. Get pissed if it's not and then sue claiming the BS of "racial discrimination" (and I'm only talking the BS of racial discrimination when it comes to people bitching about translations of items).

Quote:

Originally posted by ASUADPi
Now, I haven't been to Europe but I've heard (so obviously don't quote me because I could be incorrect) that almost nothing is in English. Yeah you're going to find people who know the language (English) but otherwise you need to know their language.

You're not the first person to say this, and it's just not true. When I went to Europe, there was all kinds of things in English, and many, many people spoke English. In fact, in international travel, English and French are the official languages. When you get on a plane for an international flight, instructions are first given in the native language of whatever country you are in, and then repeated in French and English.

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
You're not the first person to say this, and it's just not true. When I went to Europe, there was all kinds of things in English, and many, many people spoke English. In fact, in international travel, English and French are the official languages. When you get on a plane for an international flight, instructions are first given in the native language of whatever country you are in, and then repeated in French and English.

Cool. Thanks for telling me! :D

Quote:

Originally posted by ASUADPi
Cool. Thanks for telling me! :D

It was really cool boarding Lufstansa in Frankfort, Germany. I don't really know much German, so I missed most of the messages the first time, but I did understand the French & English translations.

I think it's all mainly because Europe makes major $$$ off American tourists. If your cash cow spoke English, it would be major incentive to learn it. Plus, it's normal in their school system to have both their native language (German, French, Spanish, depending on what country you're talking about) AND an English class. And actually, I had a friend that lived in Switzerland, and she took FOUR language classes every day in school (French, English, German, and I believe Spanish or Dutch).

Having flown into a number of international gateways, I can confirm the above. Announcements are often given or repeated in English.

In addition, English and French are the official languages of the air traffic control systems -- the folks the pilots talk to.

Quote:

Originally posted by ThetaSis2GPhiB
First off, I said some folks may be confused. I did not say everyone.

That's the only part you think was not a match?

The 2nd verse in Spanish...

Sorry, didn't mean you were talking to me - just noting that I understood the situation.

I agree the second verse is different, but am on the MysticCat/AlphaFrog side of the argument that until this came out, I bet a lot of folks didn't even know there was a second verse so to get all pissy about it makes me do this :rolleyes: .

I wonder if people would be so pissed if it was translated into Japanese or some other language...methinks not...

Quote:

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Sorry, didn't mean you were talking to me - just noting that I understood the situation.

I agree the second verse is different, but am on the MysticCat/AlphaFrog side of the argument that until this came out, I bet a lot of folks didn't even know there was a second verse so to get all pissy about it makes me do this :rolleyes: .

I wonder if people would be so pissed if it was translated into Japanese or some other language...methinks not...

When a significant amount of Japanese illegals start settling America and people start speaking Japanese instead of English, then I think the rest of us might get upset.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInKC
Thank you. Again, it's not about just translating it into Spanish. The words were rewritten to further the agenda. That's like spitting on the flag to me.

To me it's actually worse.........

It's the National Anthem of the United States. It was written a certain way and that's how it should be sung. I highly doubt the French would want theirs sung in English. Or that the words should be rewritten.

Translating it and changing the words makes it no longer the same song. It shouldn't even be called the National Anthem/Star Spangled Banner.

1st off, Americans dont speak English, We speak American.

If you have ever traveled in The British Isles, try to understand some of the English of The Actual Country. It is worse than EarpSpeak!;)

Our National Anthem by some sucks and should be changed to America The Beautiful.

But when some dumb ass like a Celebraty Butchers it, I have a Problem.:mad:

Who Was the bitch married to Tom Arnold that screached it out in Yankee Stadium?:mad:

Learn The Lingo of The Country You live in or move on.

The American National Anthem is for The Country and is and should be sung in American!

Oh say can You See?

The song should be sung in English/American. The translation changes the song and it shouldn't be changed. Yes, America the Beautiful is easier to sing, but that's not the topic right now. If you live in a country that speaks English/American, then that's what you should speak. If I lived in Spain, Italy, or Germany I would be expected to speak what the country speaks. I take care of too many patients that do not speak the language AND have been in the country for a LONG time... there is no excuse for that. I don't know how I would buy groceries, buy anything for that matter if I couldn't communicate with the person selling me the stuff. I'll never understand that.

I want to laugh at every single person who has not used proper English in this thread, but I will refrain because I'm just a big liberal hippie who hates America, freedom, and apple pie.

To dredge up a really bad line from a sad old joke, is this the song that starts, "Jose, can you see..."