What is a canadian tuxedo?

Asking people to participate in a dress up day and wear their pin is not necessarily hazing...and someone may be taking the rules too far. The question is this-if someone chose not to participate in the dress up (normal clothing etc.), what would happen to them? If there is no punishment or retribution of any kind, then it is not hazing to ask for their participation. If there is, then you could make an argument that it is.

Scavenger Hunts--this is an FIPG thing. FIPG, which most national groups are a part of, specifically fordbid them and I was told it was because there were too many instances of people travelling long distance, stealing things, make buffoons of themselves etc. I know that's not always the case, but that is where the objections are stemming from.

I do think some of the rules we have are because people cannot always be trusted to not go too far, unfortunately (the whole given an inch, take a mile kind of thing....)

This is so true.......

WOW! They do exist! And they hang out on Greek Chat!

NEW MEMBER/PARENT/PROFESSOR/TYPICAL OFF-TO-COLLEGE KID: "And, since we saw it on TV, I KNOW it has to be true! And, since I read it in a magazine/heard it/saw it on TV that Greeks haze, OF COURSE it has to be true!"

Can't we just be finished with this crap?

Iris

That's exactly it - you ran all over town...
If you had stepped off campus and one person got hit by a car or broke their leg, the lawsuit would cripple the organization. We live in a litigious society and everything we do is to prevent a major lawsuit.

This is why I love you---you never say anything half way. :)

I really don't get the analogy between a car insurance commercial and wanting to eradicate hazing, but ummm whatever.

And many people have been told that it's not only hazing to require someone to participate, it's hazing to even ask, because if an active asks, the pledges will feel pressured.

The "rules" nowadays go insanely too far, and if they keep going down this path we will kill ourselves off in 50 years - not from scavenger hunts or drinking or paddling, but because Greek life will be so lacking in fun that no one will want to join. We'll be groups that do nothing but community service and expect members to pay $500/semester for the privelege.

It's purely about money. Considering every time I go to a convention or panhellenic luncheon everyone is laughing uproariously about the "terrible" things they had to do when they pledged, I think a lot of this is lip service. I don't mean things like beating the crap out of someone - I am hoping most groups have wised up where that's concerned, although I'm sure there's some national officers out there who still believe "wood is good" - I mean silly things like getting your pledge book stolen and such.

Someone wah wahed because they had to ask the big bad fraternity man for a signature, so we can't do that anymore. Someone in one chapter was bitchy about giving out interviews, so we can't do that anymore. It all has to do with the complete abdication of personal responsibility that's overtaken this country. On my campus, there were groups that everyone knew hazed, and hazed hard. The general consensus was that the pledges were stupid to stick around and put up with it.

...in the commercial, there's a guy talking on the phone about how easy the Geico website is to navigate....so easy that "even a caveman could do it."

Then, flash-ahead, he's sittiing at lunch in a fancy restaurant with two cavemen who have called him out on his statement. One, with an attitude and in very plain English, orders a fancy meal; the other has lost his appetite. Both cavemen LOOK like what comes to mind when thinking of a caveman, yet both are obviously intellingent and articulate.

Analogy to Greek Life and hazing.......young men and women in our Greek orgs are intelligent and articulate, yet in the clouded secrecy behind their new member "rituals", they aren't what they appear to be far too often. They haze.

They need to stop.

Iris

I've seen the commercial. I still don't think there is a connection.

.....Hmmmm....takes too many Greeks too long to get the "don't haze" thing, also.

If "hazing" is getting sorority signatures, having to interview at least 25 actives, and participating in team building exercises with my pledge class, I'm glad I was "hazed". These simple, non-damaging tasks brought me a lot closer to the actives/pledge brothers and was a very easy why to introduce myself to the sorority girls on campus. I'll say it again that I believe some people are taking this no hazing policy way too far.

I don't get the connection between the commercial and hazing. It's not the best analogy. I do get the don't haze thing.

As I see it, hazing really doesn't create a sense of unity within a fraternity or sorority. It might create unity within a new member class, but it creates resentment between the new members and the brothers or sisters. It becomes an us against them dynamic which is ultimately unhealthy in any org.

And I knew pledges (yes, they were called pledges) who were hazed in the way that KillarneyRose described including the chocolate syrup. This was in the late 80s and early 90s when GLOs were beginning to focus their efforts on eliminating hazing. That type of behavior didn't build brotherhood or sisterhood and only hurt and humiliated people.

We didn't have the chocolate syrup thing, but we did have the 'match test'. Basically we had to learn to say the greek alphabet before a match burnt out - and we are talking the paper matches found in match books not wooden matches.

Ahh the match test. I could do that.

I just want to add that it was a fraternity that turned the pledges into human ice cream sundaes. One of my freshman dorm neighbors walked in covered in chocolate and whipped cream. It was pretty gross.