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-   -   Aggies Take Seahawks' '12th Man' To Court (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=74594)

saetex 02-06-2006 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lindz928
FYI: this is the information I found on the Tweltfh Man at A&M

http://aggietraditions.tamu.edu/12thman.shtml

"The tradition of the Twelfth Man was born on the second of January 1922, when an underdog Aggie team was playing Centre College, then the nation's top ranked team. As the hard fought game wore on, and the Aggies dug deeply into their limited reserves, Coach Dana X. Bible remembered a squad man who was not in uniform. He had been up in the press box helping reporters identify players. His name was E. King Gill, and was a former football player who was only playing basketball. Gill was called from the stands, suited up, and stood ready throughout the rest of the game, which A&M finally won 22-14. When the game ended, E. King Gill was the only man left standing on the sidelines for the Aggies. Gill later said, "I wish I could say that I went in and ran for the winning touchdown, but I did not. I simply stood by in case my team needed me.".................. This tradition took on a new look in the 1980's when Coach Jackie Sherrill started the 12th Man Kick-Off Team composed of regular students through open tryouts. This 12th Man team performed very well and held opponents to one of the lowest yards per return averages in the league. Later, Head Coach R.C. Slocum changed the team to allow only one representative of the 12th Man on the kick off team. The 12th Man tradition also took musical form. The 12th Man sings this song after each game in which the Aggies are outscored."

Seattle may have been using it since the 1980s... But this started in 1922. That's a hell of a lot longer.

The thing that bothers me most about this is that people are using it as another reason to talk shit about my school.... And I find that insulting. :(

There is nothing wrong with A&M, sure, I go to UT, but I still believe that A&M is a very good school and produces very successful people.

saetex 02-06-2006 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by KSig RC
Yeah . . . boring day at the office, so I actually spent some time researching this (since that's, well, my job). It turns out you're only partially correct on the history involved here -

-According to everything I've found, this is the very first time that A&M has had to file any sort of restraining order or injunction against a team - a cursory glance at the US Federal Courts' PACER listing shows exactly 1 instance of A&M as the plaintiff in a civil suit against ANYONE - in 2006, against the Seattle Seahawks. Note this is an incomplete list, however, it's the only electronic database available from the federal courts.

-According to an A&M official, while they've never sued another team, they've sent letters to the Bears, Bills, and the Miller Brewing Company asking them to stop and threatening legal action - the teams stopped on their own (cite ).

-Also, A&M first filed the TM in 1990 (and renewed in 1996) - their claim is that the trademark should belong to them based on common law. Trademarks are indeed protected, even when not filed or registered, by common law; this is an issue b/c the Seahawks have been using the term since the mid-80s, to refer to crowds at the Kingdome.

OK - so what's my point? It's simple - there is actually zero review available on whether or not A&M's trademark has proper upkeep or is valid, and they have actually never won any court cases (that I can find) regarding this trademark. That makes concerns over generic status not only valid, but I would say pretty credible, considering the 20+ years of someone else using the mark (and multiple instances of use in other locations).

But luckily, it doesn't matter what you or I understand, as these concerns would all be determined by an actual finder of fact (in this case, a jury), or by an out-of-court settlement . . . although it looks like the 'Hawks want to rumble on this one. I would imagine it's been profitable enough for both parties that the court battle may be worth it . . .

ETA: My real point here is that this is a VERY interesting case, on many levels - considerably more interesting than most p/tm work you'll find. I kind of hope it doesn't settle, as I'd love to see it play out.

Nice post, seriously. None of the info that I have received was in writing, so it was hard to remember everything that was told to me. I have some family members (attorneys) that are very close with those that represent both UT and A&M, so I think they had some idea about what was going on. I should have referred to settlements, rather than cases, as there are obviously are not any recorded. I think I read in Sports Illustrated or ESPN that they had gone through cases concerning legal matters with other institutions. I wonder why they did not file until 1990 for a trademark, when they have been using, and founded the term, since 1920. There is a long story beind the origins of the term, so I can't imagine anyone else claiming that they thought it up.

The fact that Seattle has been using the term since the 1980's makes the case all the more interesting.

Lindz928 02-06-2006 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by saetex
There is nothing wrong with A&M, sure, I go to UT, but I still believe that A&M is a very good school and produces very successful people.
That's exactly what I say about UT. Hell, I live in Austin. This place would be miserable if I hated UT like the devil. :D

AznSAE 02-07-2006 12:09 AM
the first college football game i ever attended was at texas a&m. my roommate's little brother was in the corps of cadets and got tickets for his family and they had invited me along. we didnt stand much during the game, but i did however sway back and forth in between quarters with a cute girl next to me.

Lindz928 02-07-2006 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AznSAE
the first college football game i ever attended was at texas a&m. my roommate's little brother was in the corps of cadets and got tickets for his family and they had invited me along. we didnt stand much during the game, but i did however sway back and forth in between quarters with a cute girl next to me.
Haha This post made me :)

AznSAE 02-07-2006 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lindz928
Haha This post made me :)
it could have been you next to me ;)

Lindz928 02-07-2006 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AznSAE
it could have been you next to me ;)
Oooohhh... it could have been! ;) Haha.

BigCityStripper 02-07-2006 07:51 PM
saetex,

Don't let some of the people on this thread get your dander up. The majority of the ones questioning your understanding are jealous of 2 facts:

1) You come from a state with an immense amount of pride. There is a distinct faction on this site that resents anything Texan and will go out of their ways to denigrate any and everything from the Lone Star State.

2) You attended a university whose Greek system is looked upon as "true" Greek Life. i.e. huge sorority/fraternity houses, chapters over 150-200 members, huge social events these people could only dream of. Most of your detractors, and the majority of GC regulars for that fact, attended schools with Greek Life akin to that of UTSA, WTAMU, etc.

Don't let them get you down.

That out of the way. What A&M is upset about is the marketing of the phrase "the 12th Man" by the Seahawks. This is what their trademark refers to. Any merchandise officially sold by the Seahawks with that phrase is in violation of the trademark rights held by A&M.

I've heard that there is little to none of this merchandise out there. That doesn't bode well for the Aggies argument. And I do think I've read that their trademark specifcally refers to the marketing of intercollegiate material too

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...h=Submit+Query

That being said, as a Texan and a true college football fan, I know that there is only ONE 12th Man, and that is the student body of the Texas A&M Aggies.

KSigkid 02-08-2006 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BigCityStripper
saetex,

Don't let some of the people on this thread get your dander up. The majority of the ones questioning your understanding are jealous of 2 facts:

1) You come from a state with an immense amount of pride. There is a distinct faction on this site that resents anything Texan and will go out of their ways to denigrate any and everything from the Lone Star State.

2) You attended a university whose Greek system is looked upon as "true" Greek Life. i.e. huge sorority/fraternity houses, chapters over 150-200 members, huge social events these people could only dream of. Most of your detractors, and the majority of GC regulars for that fact, attended schools with Greek Life akin to that of UTSA, WTAMU, etc.

Don't let them get you down.
It seems like people in this thread are trying to explain the legal background; it doesn't seem at all like some "I'm jealous of Texas" thing.

kddani 02-08-2006 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by KSigkid
It seems like people in this thread are trying to explain the legal background; it doesn't seem at all like some "I'm jealous of Texas" thing.
Yep, at least from my point of view.
Texas is a nice place to visit, and i'm glad people from there have so much pride, but it's not for me. It has nothing to do with being jealous. It's more to do with discussing the legal issues.

saetex 02-08-2006 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BigCityStripper
saetex,

Don't let some of the people on this thread get your dander up. The majority of the ones questioning your understanding are jealous of 2 facts:

1) You come from a state with an immense amount of pride. There is a distinct faction on this site that resents anything Texan and will go out of their ways to denigrate any and everything from the Lone Star State.

2) You attended a university whose Greek system is looked upon as "true" Greek Life. i.e. huge sorority/fraternity houses, chapters over 150-200 members, huge social events these people could only dream of. Most of your detractors, and the majority of GC regulars for that fact, attended schools with Greek Life akin to that of UTSA, WTAMU, etc.

Don't let them get you down.

That out of the way. What A&M is upset about is the marketing of the phrase "the 12th Man" by the Seahawks. This is what their trademark refers to. Any merchandise officially sold by the Seahawks with that phrase is in violation of the trademark rights held by A&M.

I've heard that there is little to none of this merchandise out there. That doesn't bode well for the Aggies argument. And I do think I've read that their trademark specifcally refers to the marketing of intercollegiate material too

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...h=Submit+Query

That being said, as a Texan and a true college football fan, I know that there is only ONE 12th Man, and that is the student body of the Texas A&M Aggies.
I have noticed that too, for sure. It is like that in every thread I post in it seems like. Its rather humorous to be honest. The redneck comments make me laugh.

AchtungBaby80 02-08-2006 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by kddani
Wow, is 12th Man trademarked by them? I've heard of many schools using that.
Me, too...my high school did it! I better not wear that "12th Man Club" sweatshirt anymore or else. :p

This is very interesting.

SmartBlondeGPhB 02-09-2006 06:44 PM
What I find funny is that A&M cared SO much about the matter but didn't do anything until the Seahawks started getting national attention. As has been said, the Seahawks have been using this phrase for YEARS (the number 12 was retired long ago). If A&M cared so much why didn't they do something back in 1990 when they first filed for protection? The answer - MONEY. Plain and simple.

I also find it funny that everyone keeps putting Paul Allen with Microsoft. Yes, Paul Allen is the co-founder of Microsoft but he has nothing to do with the company (except maybe as an independent shareholder) anymore.

wreckingcrew 05-09-2006 12:52 PM
Sorry Seahawk fans
 
http://www.aggiesports.com/stories/0...0060509059.php

Quote:
A&M settles 12th Man suit

By JOSH BAUGH
Eagle Staff Writer


Texas A&M University has settled a trademark-infringement lawsuit against the Seattle Seahawks, agreeing to license the 12th Man slogan to the NFL football team for use in its broadcast area.

The university in January filed a lawsuit against the team just days before it played the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2006 Super Bowl.

The agreement, announced by both entities Monday, allows the Seahawks to use the 12th Man slogan within a seven-state area in the Northwest region of the United States. The team must publicly state that A&M owns the phrase each time it is used, according to A&M officials.

The Seahawks also will pay a licensing fee to A&M, though A&M representatives refused to release how much, saying the final documents haven't been filed in court yet.

"From our standpoint, it's never been about money," said Steve Moore, A&M's vice president for communications. "There are some nominal amounts. We've agreed with the Seahawks that we're going to remain quiet right now."

Moore also declined to discuss why the university settled the case, which was scheduled to be heard in June in a Houston-based federal court.

Representatives with the Seahawks could not be reached for comment Monday afternoon.

Moore announced the settlement to students, faculty and staff Monday afternoon by e-mail.

Shortly after, the memo was posted on texags.com, where dozens of Aggie fans debated whether the settlement was a good move by the university. Some lambasted A&M and Moore, who announced the deal, for being a "sellout," and others suggested that it was the best possible move the university could make.

The Seahawks have used the slogan in various forms on team merchandise. Their 12th Man started in the mid-1980s when capacity crowds made the now-demolished Kingdome one of the NFL's loudest venues. That support was magnified in 67,000-seat Qwest Field, where the Seahawks won 23 of their last 26 games.

A&M has used the 12th Man slogan for decades, but the Aggies made it official in 1990 when they received the licensing trademark, which is a step the Seahawks never took.

Moore said the university will do "some degree of monitoring" to ensure that the Seahawks abide by the terms of the settlement. He said A&M will continue to spread the recognition and connection of the 12th Man trademark to the university.

"We're going to do everything in our attempt to make sure that the 12th Man is front and center," he said. "At the same time, I think our students will have a heightened spirit in putting together the 12th Man spirit."

• Josh Baugh's e-mail address is josh.baugh@theeagle.com.
Rest assured that I'm going to check up on all of y'all that said in here that your schools use the slogan and forward those to our trademark and licensing office.

There is only one 12th Man, and he calls College Station, Texas home.

Kitso
KS 361 Grand one of y'all could pay me to use my little '361' idea, but only in your 7 state regional area and only if you agree that I hold the trademark (I gots student loans to pay off)

Optimist Prime 05-09-2006 01:25 PM
glad there was an update


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