And a 21 year old sitting in TGIFriday's having a beer with dinner violates the standards of your organization how?

WE'RE NOT SAYING PLEDGES SHOULD DRINK IF THEY ARE UNDER 21. NO ONE SHOULD DRINK IF THEY'RE UNDER 21. The point we are making is that your sorority or fraternity should not be allowed to tell anyone - pledge, brother or alum - that they are not permitted to engage in LEGAL activities on their own time.

Then how can they require a pledge to be at a place at a certain time, or participate in three intramural games per week, or wear a pledge pin 24/7, or attend 2 hours of philanthropy per week?

You see, you have your opinions on what hazing is, so do other people - your opinions don't make everyone else’s wrong. As much as you choose to preach your opinions, you need to listen to others as well.

Ok, i understand what you guys are saying though i dont agree with it.
To repeat, i just started this thread to see the general view of chapters across the nation, so thanks for your information. Its really insightful. For record, my chapter does not have a dry period or will, i was just curious on the national feel of it all, becuase I know quite a few chapters that do this (in and out of my fraternity) and I honestly respect them for that, really do. However, I do think its sort of weird personally, but its just as much hazing as making the pledges dress formally or read something from a book or dare I say, act with the values of your fraternity.

Did you read this? Read it again. If everyone in the organization is doing it, it's much less likely to be hazing. There are special requirements for being a MEMBER of an organization. These requirements should not differ drastically because you are a pledge.

There you have it, now you're somewhat contradicting yourself. Using the words "If everyone in the organization is doing it, it's much less likely to be hazing."

So, your saying that if the entire active chapter, and the pledges, were eating a large jar of mayonnaise while singing the National Anthem while naked in the middle of the Quad with crabs hanging from your nipples, that would be ok?

If the WHOLE CHAPTER has a mandatory event or activity/philanthropy requirements, then we can require ALL MEMBERS to be there. We can't ask just new members to do any of this.

We do consider requiring wearing a pledge pin 24/7 to be hazing.


Any and all events that we plan have to follow certain risk management guidelines and fit into the mission and values of the sorority. Therefore, the example of eating a large jar of mayo while singing the National Anthem, blah blah wouldn't follow our mission or values. A chapter that did that would be in huge trouble.

Dee

BECAUSE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ORGANIZATION!!

They're at a SORORITY meeting at a certain time.

They are playing on the SORORITY'S intramural team.

They are wearing a SORORITY pledge pin.

They are attending the SORORITY'S philanthropy activity.

All these activities help pledges develop a sense of pride and responsibility to the organization, learn their org's history and help them complete the requirements they need to be initiated. And as Dee & CC have stated, there are limits on the amount of time that pledges can be required to give to the group.

Forcing pledges to abstain from alcohol, smoking or TV teaches them nothing about the group's history or values. All it does is set them apart from the active members.

If you don't get this, it's because you don't want to get it.

No we do want to get it, but you have to get us too... you cant expect us to bend over backwards to understand your views if you dont try to understand ours. I think forcing a pledge to stop watching TV is just plan stupid and mean.

However, if you ASK the pledges to respect a dry period i think that helps 'develop a sense of pride and responsibility to the organization' very much so. I think -ZZkai- would agree with me, that if there was dry period and a pledge broke it, we wouldnt kick him out or punish him, we would just ask of him to repect it. We are not talking force by any means. Asking to sustain for the pledge process develops pride in the organization they are trying to help build and it builds pride in themselves.

But do they DO anything during this dry pledging? I mean, are they designated drivers or something? Does it help the brotherhood in any concrete way?

I'm not even against things like the pledges having to clean the house, mainly because I believe (or maybe I should say hope) that brothers/sisters end up pitching in and helping anyway, and because it's a visible benefit (i.e. the chapter house is clean). But this, I just don't get at ALL.

I guess the best way to resolve this is to agree to disagree.

I do believe that some chapters that have dry periods do use them as safe drivers, to answer that.

Why do you need alcohol, why is it important, I mean not a whole lot of good comes out of it. Dont get me wrong, I am not the first person who should talk about the evils of alcohol because I enjoy a beer or two or sometimes 8, but I think a dry alcohol period is noble and respectful. It creates control, responsibility and respect

We are the only ones on our campus who don't have an enforced dry new member period. This is because we can't require anything of our new members that we don't require of our lifetime members. You'd better believe that none of them would be drinking at any social events if they were under 21, though.

Yeah, Im pretty sure thats a requirement for almost ALL fraternities and sororities. Our chapter have no social events with alcohol, that are planned or funded by the chapter.

Wow, really? Do you not have a cash bar at your events like formal? We do not use chapter funds to pay for alcoholic beverages of any kind BUT we are permitted to have cash bars at functions for those over 21.

OH, i lied then, i forgot, we had a cash bar at formal, but thats it, that totally escaped my brain... but if we are doing an event with another organization, we will not have alcohol, which is what I was getting at. There was a fellow in my pledge class who was depledged because he arrived at an event with a sorority, and let it known that he had previously had alcohol before arriving there. Although his appearance was fine.

Actually, being a pledge and not drinking absolutly helps you learn about the history and the traditions of a group, I think it's ludicris that people are even argueing this point, drinking isn't bad, but it should be recognized that the theory behind pleding is to learn, alchohol will hinder that goal and make it much more difficult to focus on what you need to learn during pledging. Pledging is a short time and in the end in order to get as much out of it as one can I absolutly think dry pledging is the way to go.