Re: Re: I dunno you guys & gals...
 

Someone who is former military--I believe Delta Intel--that works in Washington DC in 2004 told me that N. Korea has nukes capable of reaching the western seaboard of the US...

Now, I don't know how true that is or even if I wanna know the truth... But either way, too many lunatics have nukes and are too trigger happy to use them on innocent, untrained, civilians...

As far as Iraq as a "moral imperative" for war against them... Well, I agree there is geopolitical motivation behind it... And the removal of the Baathist regime because they were rather slimy with the backdoor, backroom, UN-EU deals that we will never know how many Euros were paid out... But who gets the $$$ now??? Because ever since we started fighting in Iraq, all deals and bets came off the table...

But a "moral imperative"? Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that... Maybe you have more sociopolitical understanding of these sorts of things than I, but I know what I read, see, hear and talk to with folks that are directly affected on both sides of this war...

Besides, our discussion may need to be toward another topic, because we are off topic...

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KSigkid--

That's very interesting about what you say about Vietnam...

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I think the issue with a lot of angry greiving parents--aside from the fact that many of them are probably the main ones that protested the Vietnam War back in the day--is that their kids thought that in order to pay for school, they'd just sign up for the military to get the money and nothing will happen... I AM NOT SAYING ALL OF THEM... I just think that SOME kids and parents for that matter had a jaded idea of what it means to be in the military... Whether those ideas get squashed at boot camp? I have NADA authority to speak on that. But, I think pre-9/11, some kids and parents had jaded views on what it meant to be in the military... That's just my opinion...

I have a co-worker whose son is a doctor in the Army. He was told by his recruiter that he would serve 4 years and all of his med school debts would be wiped out. He was told that since he was going to be a general practioner, there was no chance that he would ever end up in combat zone because only surgeons go to combat. Well, he is still in the U.S., but some of the other general practioners have indeed been sent to Iraq. He's also told now, after 2 years of service so far, that he will not be released after 4 if we are still at war and that they can keep him as long as they need him because of the (terminology?) stop release program. Also, he will be in the reserves after his stint as an active and that could also be extended. The rules changed after some of these boys signed up.

There are other rules that changed too, like how long they can be overseas and how long a time period it is before they have to go back.

Did anybody see the 60 Minutes episode where they were talking to men who had served years and years and were being called back when they were in their late 40's, and 50's? One of them had paperwork saying that he would never be called back and he tried to fight it, but the military had him down as a different type of discharge than his papers said. I wish I could remember the exact terminology they were using, but I'm far from being a military expert.

I don't see how we can continue much longer in this endeavor without instituting the draft.

The rules have been tossed out the window.

I don't know that Mrs. Sheehan is going about this in the most positive way, but I do believe that she's grief stricken and should be getting some counseling to deal with the tragedy that she is facing.

vent

We've managed to conveniently ignore our moral imperatives in other countries. It took us forever to intervene with Bosnia, we are ignoring (for the most part) Sudan, we are ignoring our own people at home who are suffering because of lack of health care and mental health treatment or prescription coverage, or jobs.

Total hijack, but every single viaduct on my way to work is now occupied. It breaks my heart every day when I drive to work and worry about what happens when there are no more viaducts for people to live under. Until this summer, there were only about 3 taken. Now it's around 15.

/vent

Dee

Yes.

My husband was near the end of his contract with the Marines when we got married. Our first "oh crap" moment was when, after 9-11, he was put on alert that any moment he could be called and have only a few days to get his stuff in order and report to the unit. It was still a few months before the wedding, so our plan was to get married before he left if that happened. It's rather nerve-wracking to know that you can't go on a sorority retreat b/c your fiancee could be called up while you're gone and you'd miss your window of opportunity to marry him before he leaves.

Our second "oh crap" moment came about two months before our wedding -- all military members were told not to leave the country, and we had a honeymoon trip booked. We had no clue if we'd be able to go.

Our third "oh crap" moment came in '03 when most of his unit got called up to go to Iraq, and he heard there was a freeze on discharges. He was inactive and had very little time left on his contract -- only a few months. Thankfully he was not called, and he had no problems being discharged on time.

Anyways, where am I going with all of this? :p It's not what he had anticipated. Sure, he signed up voluntarily, but things changed at the drop of a hat -- that's not something you can be prepared for.

Cindy Sheehan: Please follow the advice of your entire family, and GO HOME. You know very well that this is not the way Casey would want you to act, and you are being used by left wing propagandists. YOU'VE HAD YOUR MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT ALREADY... WHY DIDN'T YOU QUESTION HIM THEN, OVER ONE YEAR AGO???

Specialist Casey Sheehan died honorably for his country, something he believed in. He took an oath to support and defend this constitution of the United States, the officers appointed over him, and the President of the United States. Cindy, the President did not kill your son. Terrorists killed your son. And by the way, if this whole spectacle in Midland is about your son, why are you bringing the Israel/Palestine Conflict in the middle of it.

Cindy, Please stop lying and go home.


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...1625_home2.gif

Bush, Sheehans share moments
The Reporter (Vacaville, CA) ^ | June 24, 2004 | David Henson



Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville. Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one word: WOW!





Okay, I lied: Thank you, docetboy, for providing that article!!

Re: Re: Thanks, Bush!
 

Wait, so it's your job to tell a complete stranger how she should live her life? If you don't think she deserves "her 15 minutes of fame," why are you even writing about her?

I've actually talked to my parents about this last night, and they seemed to confirm that. My dad said that when he talked to the guys in his unit when they came back to the U.S., he heard similar stories of families selling/giving away their children's possessions. There was just a large assumption that their kids weren't coming home.

Docetboy, thanks for the article. I hadn't heard anything about her first meeting with the President, only that it had taken place about a year ago.

What a very fascinating article. Thanks for finding that!

Even on GMA they are talking about how she is simply a pawn for a couple of certain liberal organizations. I think it is terribly sad that a mother's grief is being used to further the agenda's of others.

GMA also had an another interesting story- two mothers who have both lost sons in the war, and both with very different ideas about their sons' sacrifice and what should be done. It was moving and I was impressed with their attempt to show different viewpoints. I think it is very important right now for people to see that not everyone feels the same way (even those who have had the same kind of loss).

Ok, sorry for the hijack.

Um, 49% of us TRIED to do something about it. :rolleyes: You're right, this isn't your student government. I can't go light a fire under the adminstration's butt and get appointed to a post. But I can go to rallies, and sign petitions and write my congress people and vote for the people I think are the best for the job. AND, I can bitch all I want about the things I don't like - thanks to you and the many military troops before you (and the framer's of the Constitution). So to tell someone who is expressing thier opinions to GTFO not only makes you look ingnorant it basically negates what you served for and the sacrifices of so many.

Back on topic:
Seems an Army vet who does not agree with the Iraq war has offered his yard for Sheehan and her group. It's closer to the Bush Ranch, is safer for them, and get's them out of people's way.

Now she is saying that she will go to Washington in September to continue this thing. Hmm, decide to live on the street outside someone's home and let other people give you food and take care of you.... Good idea. I wonder who is paying all of her bills and everything back home. And did she just quit her job so she could do this full time? It may sound callous and rude, but I really think this is rediculous. Other people who live on the streets and accept handouts are called bums.

I am very sorry if this offends anyone, but come on.....

Why do you care? Seriously. If people want to give her food or money or whatever, how does it affect you?

I just think it is getting out of hand.

That's a good point. I don't understand why there is so much media coverage of stuff that really doesn't warrant it -- like that missing teenager in Aruba, too.

There is no reason to try and make me sound insensitive. I am not here to argue. I feel for the fact that her son was killed.

My point is that it is even more sad that she is letting herself be used by these organizations. THEY are using her grief and her loss to further their political ideas. That is just not right.

A year ago she was fine with the meeting that she had with the President. Now, she wants to live in front of his house and let the rest of her life fall apart. I'm sorry but you making me sound insensitive to her grief (which I definately am NOT) is not going to change the facts.