kddani, this is the most professional and appropriate way i have seen this argument re: tom as a moderator presented. thanks. it does not however address why people are stirring up trouble in other threads.

yep, but the people i am thinking of are always involved at the beginning of the drama.

AMEN!

And I think this whole thing is silly. I know we don't all get along or agree on everything, but I think it is hilarious when people who haven't been around here that long try to tell people what to do and whine when things don't go their way. If you don't like the way people on the message board are, then LEAVE. Like it was said before, many of the people posting are the most active GC posters and they contribute a lot to this site. No one is forcing you to stick around and read these posts. You personally choose to click on threads. If you don't like what you read, you can click the little x at the top of the screen. That's the beauty of the internet :)

your post makes too much sense. Get this isht out of here!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

;)

I don't believe I ever made such a statement on GC. If I have, then someone feel free to please post her or PM me with a direct link (Yes, I did a search, and it was an exact quote--but not made by me.)

BTW folks, this is the exact quote blueangel is attributing:

"Sorry, but hateful isn't a violation of the TOS. If it were, then I think that GC would be a very empty place. Everybody has their opinions about things - its learning to respect their right to have their own opinion that gets so many people hung up."

After reading this, I would speculate that the OP possibly meant something along the lines of "we're not all going to get along so we might as well learn to live with it or move on". But, as I did not make the statement, I won't speculate further.

As for answering any other questions, I'll stand by my original comments. It's not surprising that there is a lot of activity by some of the "active GCers" in a thread that is not only busy, but controversial.

Personally--I think it's great that AOII does AI. I don't know any different because that's how I've been taught for almost 22 years. I'm really happy that you were able to find your way back to ZTA, although I know that your AI journey in probably would have been rather different if you had originally pledged AOII in college. No, I don't know details but I feel I know enough in general to safely make that statement.

I do, however, respect that other sororities and some individual sorority members in general don't look at AI the way I might or the way AOII might as an organization. That's okay. I think that's a lot of the problem in this particular subforum--it needs someone who is well versed in general NPC knowledge, general AI knowledge AND can respect the requests of GC members who are knowledgable about their sorority's policies to ensure appropriate and accurate information about AI is out there.

Internet message boards aren't always "smiling happy people holding hands" slices of cyberspace. They're not. This particular topic CLEARLY can be emotional for some people. That's okay. Seriously folks, we're not all going to get along, we don't all have the same journey in our respective GLOs, and one size does not fit all. This isn't nirvana, it's a free public internet message board.

Again, I ask that everyone reading and/or posting in this thread remember that John is probably quite aware of the situation and will take action as soon as time allows. GC is not John's full-time job, although we'd all like to see more of him around here :)

:D

For the record, this is a lynching:

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/law/witt...1/lynching.jpg

Disagreeing with someone's posts on a message board is not a lynching. And no, I'm not being hypersensitive - calling a disagreement a "lynching" is farking OFFENSIVE AS HELL and I wish you'd stop doing it, blueangel.

I don't believe I ever made such a statement on GC. If I have, then someone feel free to please post her or PM me with a direct link (Yes, I did a search, and it was an exact quote--but not made by me.)

You are correct. It was AXO Alum. My sincere apologies for incorrectly attributing the quote to you. I'm very sorry..my mistake.

Getting back to the quote, it is, extremely disturbing that a moderator (AXO Alum) thinks "being hateful" is OK.

I run a number of internet message boards. One of them, I've run for more than ten years. It is flame free. Why? Because we have a golden rule that is ENFORCED, "You may attack an idea, but not the poster."

If it happens, my members know the post will immediately disappear, and they will get a warning in e-mail. Second time, the poster is suspended. Third time, and they're out. We had some real doozy debates around election time in the "off-topic" area of one board... but everyone stuck to the rules.

Yet, some of the worst violations to the Terms of Service on Greek Chat are committed by the very people who John had entrusted to enforce the Terms of Service. How can you have a peaceful town when the sheriff's department is corrupt?

Personally--I think it's great that AOII does AI. I don't know any different because that's how I've been taught for almost 22 years. I'm really happy that you were able to find your way back to ZTA, although I know that your AI journey in probably would have been rather different if you had originally pledged AOII in college. No, I don't know details but I feel I know enough in general to safely make that statement.

I'm not at all clear on what this statement means. If you don't feel comfortable elaborating on it on the board, please feel free to PM me.

I do, however, respect that other sororities and some individual sorority members in general don't look at AI the way I might or the way AOII might as an organization. That's okay. I think that's a lot of the problem in this particular subforum--it needs someone who is well versed in general NPC knowledge, general AI knowledge AND can respect the requests of GC members who are knowledgable about their sorority's policies to ensure appropriate and accurate information about AI is out there.

And I disagree. I run a sailing message board because I like to sail. However, I am clearly a beginner. My job as moderator is simply to help stimulate nautical conversation and to make sure the TOS are enforced.

I have several Captains and professional crew who post on my board. They answer any of the more complex navigation/nomenclature type questions.

The same would apply here. If you want an "expert" on AI, then you would need to appoint a moderator from every single GLO... because, as you know, it's done differently in each group.

So... regardless of who is moderator, If a person had a question specifically about ZTA AI, I would most certainly chime in as I could speak with some knowlege, because I went through it. I could also speak in generalities about the AI process-- giving encouragement when needed, and explaining the ups and downs *in general* of going through AI.

Internet message boards aren't always "smiling happy people holding hands" slices of cyberspace. They're not. This particular topic CLEARLY can be emotional for some people. That's okay. Seriously folks, we're not all going to get along, we don't all have the same journey in our respective GLOs, and one size does not fit all. This isn't nirvana, it's a free public internet message board.

Nobody ever said message boards were Nirvana. However, they should be CIVIL. And I disagree with you... everyone certainly CAN get along.. IF the terms of service were enforced. People should feel comfortable discussing their point of view without the fear of being personally attacked by a band of bullies.

Personally, I hope John takes this opportunity to take a hard look at his moderators and see if they really ARE doing the job. If they aren't.. maybe it's time to clean house.

Come on now, she did not say that. She said that hateful wasn't against the TOS--and--she said that people respecting others was the basic problem. Please do not twist words around to benefit your opinion. That is why I quoted the entire thought.

Quote:

Yet, some of the worst violations to the Terms of Service on Greek Chat are committed by the very people who John had entrusted to enforce the Terms of Service. How can you have a peaceful town when the sheriff's department is corrupt?

Excuse me? You might not agree with every poster on here, or every mod, and that's okay. I don't think it's fair to generalize that all mods are "corrupt". I hope that was not your point, but if it was, well, I'm speechless.

Quote:

Personally--I think it's great that AOII does AI. I don't know any different because that's how I've been taught for almost 22 years. I'm really happy that you were able to find your way back to ZTA, although I know that your AI journey in probably would have been rather different if you had originally pledged AOII in college. No, I don't know details but I feel I know enough in general to safely make that statement.

Quote:

I'm not at all clear on what this statement means. If you don't feel comfortable elaborating on it on the board, please feel free to PM me.

I'll elaborate :) I don't know details since I'm an AOII, but I'll say that AI policy and procedure in AOII is probably different than for ZTA. AOII has done alumna initiation since virtually our beginning, and according to the info available here on GC ZTA only does it in special situations. Therefore, I'd imagine that if you pledged AOII in college but transferred before initiating that your journey to initiation might have been different than what you encountered in your journey back to ZTA. Hopefully that makes sense to everyone?

Quote:

And I disagree. I run a sailing message board because I like to sail. However, I am clearly a beginner. My job as moderator is simply to help stimulate nautical conversation and to make sure the TOS are enforced.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've said it before and will say it again, in this particular area I truly believe a knowledgable and experienced mod should be appointed.

Yes, we certainly do disagree on a lot of levels. I did not "twist" her words.. she said there is nothing against the TOS about being hateful. Maybe your definition of "hateful" is different than mine?

Now speaking of twisting words.... :D Please reread my post to you. I did not say ALL the moderators were offenders, I said "SOME of the worst violators of the terms of service are the very people John had entrusted...."-- and I stand by that statement. And, yes.. those people I am referring to are corrupt.. because they are abusing their powers.

This forum has been running very well the way it was... that is... until a group of trouble makers decided to destroy it. So, no, I don't think we necessarily need a moderator who is knowlegable about AI.. since there are many members here who are...

... but I think we need moderators across the board in Greek Chat who will uphold the Terms of Service so that people can feel comfortable about posting their opinions without fear of the band of bullies swooping down on them and launching personal attacks.

Care to address anything that I said in my earlier post in this thread? The thread that VERY explicitly outline the non-personal reasons why so many of us have a problem here? Or do you want to keep on trying to stir up even more trouble? That seems to happen frequently whenever someone posts valid points, they are ignored and glossed over on the way to arguing something that's more fun. Or the poster who ignores them knows they have no valid arguments against what was posted.

You know, i've really tried not to say anything harsh to you, because I know your heart is in the right place, but you keep going on about it.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. You don't know everything that has been said or what has been done and tried to resolve this. There have been a number of people, mods and nonmods, who have had issues with this forum for a long time, nothing just happened.

MODS ARE NOT PAID, WE ARE VOLUNTEERS.

MODS ONLY HAVE POWER IN THE FORUMS THEY MOD- ex. I only have "power" in the KD forum and Events forum. In any other forum I am just like any other poster.

YOU ARE TAKING QUOTES OUT OF CONTEXT AND TWISTING THEM TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS. Nothing was wrong with what AXOAlum said. She's also out of town right now and not here to defend herself. Though I wish she were because i'm sure she'd have quite a lot to say.

THIS FORUM HAS NOT BEEN "RUNNING WELL THE WAY IT IS". There have been issues brought up both publicly and privately that i'm sorry you weren't around for or didn't notice. But don't talk about things which you know nothing about. For instance, a little while ago said moderator made a list of orgs and names of GCers that were willing to help people with AI. Thing is, none of us EVER said we'd help GCers with AI and he did not have our permission to post our names.
Another example (of many) is when there was information that was being discussed that members of the org or orgs in question thought was very private and regarding their membership selection. The post was asked to be deleted by many many members and it was not, though said moderator knew what was going on. It was only removed when LXAAlum got online. LXAAlum does a good job and no one has a problem with him, but he isn't around often enough to fully mod the forum.

* Last time I checked, we lived in a country that prided ourselves on freedom of speech. Though this is a private message board, we do follow the first amendment for the most part. Expressing things that may be hateful is a part of our country. It's okay. You don't have to agree with it. No one asked you to agree with anything. But GCers, mods and non mods alike, have a right to express themselves in the way that they see fit.

* That's nice that you like to sail and have a message board about it. But that has nothing to do with GC. Just because you do things one way there doesn't mean it's right for here and doesn't mean that your way is the only way or "right". Just like your org does things one way while mine may do it another.

And my final thought for the moment, LEAVE RITUAL OUT OF IT. You do NOT know my ritual and you have NO right to speak of my ritual or anyone else's.

I can tell you that your mention of ritual specifically pissed A LOT of people off and was pretty offensive. Especially since, as someone else said "you've been a member for about five minutes." It's great that you're enthusiastic about being greek, but you don't necessarily know how things are done and you have NO place whatsoever to tell other greeks how they should and should not live up to their ritual. Worry about your own sisters, that's fine. But it's not your place to tell other GLOs what their values are or aren't.

Besides pissing off people by your reference to our rituals, your frequent use of the word "lynching" in comparison to the debates going on is also offensive. What's going on on a freaking message board is nothing to even be compared to the history of lynchings. You do realize you have African-American sisters, don't you?

So how about responding to some valid points and actual arguments instead of complaining about the moderators, etc.? By the way, in case you haven't noticed, there's a hell of a lot more people than just some of us mods that have felt this way about the AI forum and that have expressed it. So whatever the reasons for your personal attacks, address the actual issues!

ETA: I just realized that you and I had it out in a thread in the D&R forum a few months ago. Back then you brought up other people's rituals too. Get over it. Other GLO's rituals are NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS and you have NO right to bring them up or try to use them.

how about cheesecake? I just had my first Cheesecake Factory experience tonight!

Or how about a good ol' SHEETCAKE?