BetaRulz, of the MoP chapters that have done extraordinarily well there is one thing they have in common. They would have done well regardless. All the needed was some leadership. The campuses you are talking about all share the fact that men want to join fraternities and they can support large chapters.

On the flip side, I know of many MoP chapters on campuses that support a strong Greek system and those chapters are doing horrible because quite frankly they recuirt the kind of guys that no one else wants to be associated with.

I don't like talking bad about other Beta's and other chapters, but I met a few guys out at Convention from MoP chapters that I would not be associated with otherwise.

MoP is not going to make a weak chapter strong. If anything it's going to make a weak chapter disappear.

There is another chapter within 20 miles from my chapter - we're totally opposite. If I went to that school, I'd likely have been a Phi Delt. My friend who was a Phi Delt at that school, would have been a Beta had he went to my school.

Each chapter is different. Just because you met guys at convention that you wouldn't typically associate with, doesn't make them bad Beta's.

As for your last two sentances about bad chapters weaker...etc., I totally disagree. That said, a chapter that is on it's last legs looking for MOP to 'fix it', yeah, you're right, they'll likely die. But, they would have died anyway.

Beta isn't just your chapter. It's spead over two countries. There are about 180 chapter total. 125 active. They're all different.

Nebraska is a great example of a chapter who failed miserably. They re-orged as a pilot for MOP. Now they're one of our best. Same with Penn. Minnesota is now MOP and dominant. Alpha. OK State....etc.

I get frustrated with people (many of my alumn alone) who think MOP is a nazi driven program. It's good, you just gotta open up a bit. Think outside of your box.

You can't complain about something til you walked a mile in those shoes.

You havent been involved in a MoP chapter, so you wouldn't know. I haven't been involved in an nonMoP chapter, so I wouldn't know what thats like.

What I do know, is that being an MoP chapter isn't a bad thing, and it isn't very controling or restricting either.

You are using chapters that had the potential to be strong regardless of MoP stuff. Those are strong greek campuses and chapters with strong alumni support.

I'm not going to call out any chapters, but they are certainly there that are MoP and the overwhelming success that is attributed to MoP does not include them. They are sort of tossed aside when someone wants to brag about how good MoP chapters are.

I guess I really don't follow your post?

Anyway, every school that has Greeks, has the potential to be a good Greek system. Nebraska had the exact same chances as every other chapter in the world, to be good. But, they weren’t, and they were re-orged by their alumni, and they came back as a pilot chapter for MOP, and have been a great, leading, dominant chapter ever since. Do they still have their internal issues? Yes. Do they get stalked by GF to make sure they're following every single rule? No. Can they drink? Yes. Can they drink in their house? No - because they are a dry house by choice, not because MOP told them so.

Success breeds success. If chapters continue to not adapt to change, they'll die eventually. Trust me.

Could you give us an example of a MoP chapter that is in rocky waters cause of their MoP association, and how they are in rocky waters?

I'll try to clarify. The MoP chapters that are used as examples for MoP success are located on campuses that have very strong Greek communities. Using the alpha chapter as an example really doesn't prove anything because it comes from a campus that is 50% greek. Penn, OK, Auburn...they are all very greek oriented.

The chapters that are not mentioned in examples for MoP success are struggling every bit as much now as they were before the initiative.

The ideas behind MoP is something that every chapter should already be following, however the initiative is only creating a division.

Again, I guess we'll disagree on this. Division is only created by people who allow and/or want it. If you're concerned about the division, then what are you, or your chapter, doing to prevent it?