Well, it's almost that simple.

Historically, "underground chapters" were fully-chartered chapters that the academic institution was not aware of -- that is, the chapter was located at a school that did not know of or could not prove the chapter's existence. Such chapters were also called sub rosa ("under the rose"), a reference to an old practice of using a rose over a door to mark a secret meeting place.

Sub rosa chapters, particularly of "young" fraternities, were not uncommon in the nineteenth century, when in some institutions membership in a fraternity could be grounds for expulsion from school. The existence of the chapter had to be kept secret from the school administration.

Obviously, that is not as much of an issue anymore, and arguably the term "underground" chapter may have taken on a more "fluid" usage. But I don't think it is the proper word to apply to the situation of a group operating without the knowledge of the fraternity in question. Because a charter is required to make a group of people a "chapter," a group operating without the knowledge of the fraternity's governing body is not a chapter, underground or otherwise. It is a group of people posing as a chapter.

Nor is a fully-chartered chapter that is simply unrecognized by an academic institution "underground" if the institution has knowledge of it, or if the chapter is not operating in secret. The chapter is merely unrecognized. As Lady Pi Phi noted, "underground" or sub rosa presumes that the existence of the chapter is being concealed from the institution's administration.

Good Points All.

Oh, there is a difference between Suspension by the School. That usually is for a period of time for infractions. Will be welcomed back when suspension is lifted.

Underground does seem to have a different distinction though.

Now, is it underground by the school or IHQ? If a Chartered GLO, then is it underground when not being a recognized Group, or Undergraound when not recognized by The HQ?

I am guessing Undergraound when not recognized by the HQ first and then the school is secondary.

That's how it works for us..........

Re: SLightly off topic
 

From the experiences I have had, most of those kind of groups are simply considered "unrecognized" from the University's perspective. They usually are barred from participating in recruitment for x amount of time due to some infraction. I know at the UW, the University lists these type of situations on the Greek Life website. The chapter still exists, but isn't recognized (usually for a year's time). When the time is up, all recognition is restored. At the same time, they are probably on some form of probation with their International org. But they are still an official chapter.

Historically, it's an underground chapter when chartered by HQ and kept secret from the school.

It's an unrecognized chapter when chartered by HQ and not recognized as a student organization by the school.

These days, a group of people posing as members of a fraternity but not recognized as a chapter by HQ is sometimes called an "underground chapter" or a "rogue chapter," but this would seem to be a misnomer since it is not a chapter at all. It's a group of posers; at best, a local passing itself off as a chapter of a national fraternity.

Actually in Queen's (and the governments) instance I believe there was a concern that some Fraternities or secret societies could be based on the German model, and as such beholden in some way to German influence - which could be used to plant enemy/subversive agents within not only Queens but the neighbouring military base and the Royal Military College.

I do know that RMC is still vehemently against any secretive societies operating with the student population in town - and Queens has never seen fit to lift the ban. Some GLOs tried to establish themselves in the 20s, 30s, and 40s... but Queen's came down hard - not the Administration, but the students...

Wording of ban at Queen's:
By resolution of Senate, no student registered with the University may form or become a member of any chapter of an externally affiliated fraternity or sorority at or near Kingston.

Entry on Fraternities and Sororities from Queen's website:

That all being said I do know that AEPi has been trying to establish a chapter at Queens - which would of course make them an underground chapter in many respects...

Weird.

How is this any different from joining a local chapter of a national professional student group (ie students who are studing medicine, business, engineering, computers, etc)?

Lack of ritual.

ETA:

Queen's needs to reword this to "no student registered with the university may form or become an ACTIVE COLLEGIAN member of any chapter of an externally affiliated fraternity.....


Lots of grad students at Queen's are alumni of GLOs from their undergrad school are still MEMBERS of their GLOs, just not active/collegian....and what does "near Kingston" mean? Ottawa is "near" Kingston, and there are GLOs there.

Maybe that's the case. But it's a heck of a lot easier to just say "I went to a party at XYZ. They are an underground fraternity" than "I went to a party at the house that holds men that were members of the former chapter of XYZ who used to be chartered but now are not and are a just a group of people posing as a chapter." I mean, let's get real. No one is going to say that. "Underground" conveys the sense of outlawism and how serious the offense is - kind of like "suicide" vs. "intentional single preference."

everytime i've heard 'underground chapter', it's in reference to the pledge/new member program

underground - pledges/new members aren't revealed until they actually initiate/cross over

above ground - pledges/new members are known from the time they receive bids

Re: Re: SLightly off topic
 

Actually i was talking about a sorority at WSU, I work at WSU-Vancouver and, well you know how people gossip, some of the people where talking about news from PUllman, i guess one of their daughters is going to rush in the fall and i head that one of the sororities is on probation (don't want to name names on here) anyway, these women know that i was in a sorority and were asking me questions. I would assume that this sorority could not rush, however I do not know if the groups HQ has put them on probation. But their HQ probably knows, but i don't know what they did, if anything. The people i work with had been asking me questions and i did not know to tell them.

I was really interested more in the, if the members could live in their house while on probation. The other answers i pretty much figured out, just thought that i would ask since the thread was brought up. Thanks for all the answers.
debbie

I will have to agree that underground references a chapters status with regards to their HQ and not the host university, and unrecognized pertains to an organization/chapters affiliation with the host university.

There seem to be plenty of univeristies that don't recognize glo's but that doesn't mean the chapters associated with the school are not in good standing with their HQ, but are instead unrecog by the HI.

Well, yes, I know there is a lack of rituals in such groups, but how does having a ritual make them 'exclusive' (and I assume 'elitist').

Of course, which is why I said earlier that "underground" has taken on a more fluid meaning. Obviously, a short hand is needed. And I wouldn't have a problem with "underground fraternity, which is what you used above, or even "underground house." My problem is with using "underground chapter" to describe a group operating without a national fraternity's authorization.

"Underground" in the context of fraternity operations means "secret" or "clandestine." Thus, for a "chapter" to be "underground," it has to be operating clandestinely with regard to some authority. Historically, the authority in question was the academic institution.

Now, the term is sometimes/often used where the authority is the fraternity itself, or perhaps the fraternity and the academic institution. My only point was that "underground chapter" is probably not the best shorthand for "members of the former chapter of XYZ who used to be chartered but now are not and are a just a group of people posing as a chapter." It's not the best shorthand because (1) "underground chapter" implies that the group really is a chapter of a national GLO when it's not, and (2) "underground chapter" historically has a specific meaning for GLOs: a fully-chartered clandestine chapter, the existence or membership of which is kept secret from -- or at least not admitted to -- the academic institution. One can still find this kind of underground chapter at some schools today.

That's the only reason I questioned "underground chapter" as a good shorthand for renegade groups that a national fraternity doesn't know about or recognize.

I think they're just trying to find an excuse. The marching band at Queen's is seen by some as "elitist" as well, but officially, no one has issues with them.