You can't provide credible citations to back up the ridiculous things that you've posted, and you won't.You are allowed to state an opinion, but that's not all that you did. You made a flippant statement that I, and other GCers took issue with. Back off? Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to obey your every command because I'm simply awe-inspired by your well thought out and eloquent opinions like, "Nope sorry not happening."I need to learn that you allow me the right to state my opinions? Gee, I thought that it was the Bill of Rights that gave me the right. If you are to change your mind, just how will you disallow me, and others, the right to state my opinions and beliefs, which of course are granted by you?Who are you to say that's too early? You want six months? Don't worry, this thread (or another) will be around to take a look at what is going on, whether you allow me the right to state my opinions and beliefs, or not.

It'll take more like 40 years - and Russ hasn't said otherwise.

Honestly, no one's saying not to express your opinion, just don't pass it off as fact.

Re: This is what those suicide murderers do.
 

The title really tells the story. The people of Iraq will dictate their future, and not terrorists. I find this to be very encouraging.

I believe that takes more like 80-100 years to really evaluate the success of any new democracy. It takes generations of teaching children until these values are safe.

[IMG]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?ssbinary=true&cachecontrol=*%3A0%2C30%3A 10+*%2F*%2F*&blobtable=JPImage&blobcol=urlimage&bl obwhere=1107400720548&blobkey=id&blobheader=image/jpeg[/IMG]

Hopefully this image shows up. This little boy is 15. He tried to blow himself up today.

-Rudey

http://img227.exs.cx/img227/116/satellite9gf.jpg

nah, but i threw it on an image host for ya. This should work.

Hmmm... amazing how the numbers change over time - the much lauded 72% (as seen on FoxNews) has slowly crept down to 57% and probibly will continue to fall as more results come in... and as more complaints of voters being turned away in Sunni areas comes to light...

Anyhoo... before ya'll jump for joy like they did on FoxNEWS, here is a tidbit from the past (which I'm sure some readers of the New York Times might have seen):

Make of it what you will....

5% would be a success. You are insufferable, brother - try to see the potential positives here. Even if you don't agree with the past, there's no choice but to do the best from here out, and this is a positive sign.

You'd think you would be celebrating that, rather than being a cantankerous nit and referencing Vietnam . . .

Geee.... sorry for reading the news "brother"... but the cynic in me doesn't see a flawed (yes flawed, I've seen the foreign monitors reports and complaints) election as proof positive of Bush's idiotic and illegal war...

As for the Vietnam reference... I stated what the BBC, CBC, Toronto Star, and New York Times brought back up again... specfically that in the past the US administration (LBJ in this case) has latched onto and promoted an election as a indicator of freedom and legitamacy... hopefully people have learned from the mistakes made during the debacle in Vietnam (though I know it's not from experience with the current armchair warmongers in office :rolleyes: )

you better hope we don't find any evidence of possible evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Canada. Maybe you should start packing and move down here where you'll be safer :D

Actually we're good... the US military took back it's last warhead in '97;)

Shiites Win Most Votes in Iraqi Election
 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...iraq_elections

By JASON KEYSER, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The list of candidates representing Iraq's majority Shiite Muslims won the most votes in the nation's Jan. 30 election, followed by the Kurds and then Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's list, Iraqi election officials said Sunday.

The Shiite-dominated ticket received 4.075 million votes. A Kurdish alliance was second with 2.175 million votes and Allawi's list was third with about 1.168 million.

Of Iraq's 14 million eligible voters, 8,456,266 cast ballots, the commission said. That represents a turnout of about 60 percent.

Also Sunday, insurgents attacked a U.S. convoy and a government building near the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, leaving at least four people dead, hospital workers said. Two Iraqi National Guard troops were also killed while trying to defuse a roadside bomb.

Election officials said only 3,775 valid votes were cast in the insurgency-plagued Sunni province of Anbar.

About 1.75 million votes were cast in the Kurdish-ruled areas of northern Iraq. Iraqis living in those areas also elected a new regional parliament.

The results released Sunday will not be certified for three days, officials said. The balloting was the first free election in Iraq in more than 50 years and the first since Saddam Hussein was ousted from power after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

"This is a new birth for Iraq," commission spokesman Farid Ayar said.

In Mosul, insurgents fired on the convoy in Al-Qahira district, just north of Mosul, sparking a battle that left at least four people dead and two wounded, doctors at the Al-Jumhuri Teaching Hospital said. Insurgents also fired a rocket at the governor's building in Mosul, killing one woman and one man, as well as injuring four others, officials at the hospital said.

Two Iraqi National Guard troops were killed on Mosul's airport road while trying to diffuse a roadside bomb, police said.

U.S. and insurgent forces have fought fierce battles in recent days in Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

Fierce clashes broke out Saturday after American troops, responding to a mortar attack on one of their bases, were attacked with small arms and rocket-propelled grenades by insurgents inside a mosque, U.S. officials said.

The insurgents disabled a U.S. Army tank and a Stryker armored vehicle during the battle, which raged for hours around the mosque, Lt. Col. Erik Kurilla said. U.S. troops killed nine insurgents but suffered no fatalities, Kurilla said.

they had a better turn out than we did

does anyone else see a problem with this?

As per usual, you missed the point, Cooper. The point of the entire post was that, regardless of your feelings on the war, even a 'hardliner' such as you can probably see that the only way a positive can come from this war is if, in years to come, the Iraqi people enjoy the freedom and prosperity that has been appreciated in our respective nations. In saying that, I'm not requiring you to exalt the Bush administration or even accept their actions as correct or positive. I'm requiring you to stray from your previous course of being a cantankerous nit, to see past your hardline anti-Bush stance and accept a greater good. You can't make the 'illegal' war go away, star - there can be, however, a 'best-case' outcome to this scenario. I wonder why you don't want to see that happen . . . wait, no I don't.

Well, make it at least two nits.

Among the things I've worried about during this entire epsode is that we may not have learned much from our unfortunate experiences in Vietnam.

Among them that training local forces to take over from us didn't work. Those forces folded as we pulled out.

Also, that local elections would give legitimacy and strength to the government. It may have in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City), but not the the majority of the country.

Finally, that the war would become a contest of attrition. Guerilla warfare is not our strongest suit.