I'm going to have to agree with what majority of the posts have said. I am a member of Delta Gamma, but also a member of Phi Sigma Pi, Psi Chi and Kappa Omicron Nu. Delta Gamma means more to me than the other orgs, because of the friendships and the memories I have gained. The others look good on grad school applications, but are not social in any shape or form. I think it's hard to compare social GLOs with honorary GLOs because they were founded to be different.

I'm a member of Epsilon Sigma Alpha, Omicron Delta Kappa, and Delta Gamma.

I actually became inactive in ESA after my freshman year. I was planning on coming back my junior year, but because of things with Delta Gamma (sorority council, CMT, etc...) I was unable to do so.

The thing is, if you're a member of three different organizations, chances are you won't be able to be equally active in all three of them. I often wear my ODK letters, because I am very proud of the prestige at USC that this organization carries. I also have an ODK credit card (mainly because of the low interest rate). I no longer have Delta Gamma letters on my car, simply because I bought a new car this year and didn't want to put stickers on it, and opted for a USC Alumni tag instead, but I will occassionaly still wear the letters, and I even bought my dog a pink and blue leash. As far as ESA, no I do not still wear the letters.

As far as the post a long time ago from the SAI... I had planned to rush SAI my sophomore year, but I decided that I had too much on my plate. I want you to know this so that you understand that I do respect the organization very much. I don't know what it's like at your school, but at mine SAI is a very social. They have the same types of things that ESA had... socials, formals, retreats, etc... The thing you have to understand, though, is that NPC and SAI are very different things. This isn't saying that SAI is any less of an organization, just different. People are not trying to say you aren't social, but they are trying to make you understand that there is a difference between NPC and your organization. I think sometimes they misplace "NPC" with "social" and that is where you get insulted. Honestly, unless you were in both types of organizations (like me with ESA and Delta Gamma) you don't really fully understand the difference. Truthfully, I do think people look down on your organization too much because of the difference, but you should be proud of it as well. For example, you get to come together socially with people who have an equal love and respect for music as you do. That's a pretty neat thing, that NPC's can't say.

Well said SAI Rose.

I can think of a particular chapter in the United States of Phi Mu Alpha that consists of no music majors or minors. MysticCat81, can you think of the location of this chapter? I believe it's on the East Coast.

The chapters of Phi Mu Alpha throughout the United States that are members of their local school's IFC usually don't have any issues with other Greeks and vice versa. They actually better improve their rush numbers and actively participate in events like Greek Week.

Regards,

Boodleboy322

Tom,

You are a wise man. I was and am a Phi Theta Kappa but my heart lies in Phi Mu Alpha.

I have the badge and certificate from the honorary group I joined back in 1998 during my time up in New England but couldn't tell you what that group is presently doing other than recognizing men and women who have outstanding GPAs.

Fraternally Yours,

Boodleboy322

Re: Re: times change...
 

I completely agree! My roommate one year was in Phi Sigma Pi (I hope I didn't reverse that) and she was more active in that.


In ODK we all knew each other from other committees we'd been on (Dance Marathon was one of the main ones... Student Senate was another) so we were all comfortable at our "gatherings" and would go out after meetings, but we were by far not a "social" fraternity!

Well, thanks... I was afraid I was going to insult you in some way, actually...

It's interesting about the requirement for one music course... I didn't know that, just thought it had to be someone who had an interest in music. I was a music major, though.

And as far as the professional label... At USC it's pretty much a combination of both. Those involved in SAI are highly respected musicians who have to obtain reccomendations from music professors to join. I think that's why there's the misconception that it is a professional org.

No, I didn't find it insulting at all! :)

To be honest, regarless of the label, SAI tends to function as a little of both social and professional, especially since we used to be professional.

Thanks :) And I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

The same old song
 

Time and time and time and time and time again on Greekchat I'm reminded that every campus is different.

This is honestly just another manifestation of this. I'll say it again


EVERY CAMPUS IS DIFFERENT!!!

Sure at your campus, the non IFC/NPC/NPHC/MC groups are important, active and offer a lot of the same things as the "social" groups do. Sinfonia and SAI may be exactly the same as KKG or SigEp or Beta or G-Phi. Maybe everyone who joins one of these non-council GLO's considers themselves "greeK". If youre in two orgs at such a campus...well maybe you should represent equally.

However, at my campus, these groups are not "greek" at all. No one who isn't in a Greek Affairs greek chapter but in something like APO, Omicron Delta Kappa or Alpha Kappa Psi would ever consider themselves "greek" at Nebraska. It's just not what is associated with the concept of being greek at my school. For me to be in ODK and Alpha Kappa Delta, means nothing to my "greek" identity, and I'm never going to ever give those groups any sort of respect in comparison to Beta.

The difference is a matter of the status these groups have at my campus. There simply is no confusion about being "greek" simply because someone is a member of one of these organizations. At some campuses, these groups might be held in higher regard but again that is something that is different at every school.

fifty years of change
 

Colleges have changed a lot in the past fifty years and apparently
so have groups, especially those using greek letters.
Some have come in the back door, being women's clubs in towns,
non-collegiate and have merged into higher education, too. That
is okay, but hardly what we would traditionally call "greek."
The trade schools and high school extensions (junior colleges) are
part of the warp and woof on some campuses. Some have tried
to "fit" themselves as traditional types as they had no chance to
be a "traditional greek." Identities have changed, too.
One would hardly take, for example, Phi Theta Kappa, as a social,
full-blown, organization. Some places that charter was sought to
be able to recognize good scholarship, open to all who had the grades, and each chapter could set it's own guidelines. Perhaps
a party or dance or event...say each semester. Sometimes even a
sweatshirt with letters. But take a look back to when the club was founded...was it fraternal? Or a money-maker with degrees
and $ for them? Has it been shaped to fit varied purposes on the
individual campuses? What is the common identity, if any? This
does not mean to imply there is no reason for their existence, but
please...do not equate Sigma Alpha Iota with Kappa Alpha Theta or Sinfonia with Beta Theta Pi...and besides, most of those non-NIC groups allow dual memberships. If your campus has Sinfonia
in the IFC, can you be a Sig Alph too? How do you handle the ones which are co-ed? Or the metro-urban-chapters? Do you identify with day school/night school, college or urban area?
Back to Phi Theta Kappa...it was a two-year organization, generally junior college>community college of questionable identity, perhaps a resume filler for transfer students. Certainly not a recognized power outfit, though one may choose to love it.
Extending bids to Phi Alpha Theta, the history club, or Delta Sigma
Pi, business, are generally not as intense as deciding who is gonna get an invite to Pi Phi or Lambda Chi. In the cases of the
professional groups, often someone simply says they want to be
a member, sign an application and pay the bucks...period.
But where each campus may be different, okay...but the NIC, NPC
ones have rather standardized criteria for membership and we
have strayed -- in some situations -- far from our roots. And if
you REALLY want to be in a social fraternity or sorority, join one.
There is plenty of room for more members or expansion to add a
new chapter or three...our welcome mat is out.

Sairose-- I completely agree with your last post. But then again, since we're from two sororities that are as close to being official sister orgs as possible (without it being constitutional), we're coming from a similar viewpoint.

It does vary from campus to campus, but the broad sweep that all-non NPC's and IFC orgs aren't Greek is completely inaccurate and shows the ignorance of the people posting.

Some orgs are purely for your resume. Others are not. Mine is not. It wasn't open to everyone, and rush was and is selective. The amount of time required to be an active member of TBS is on par or greater than the required hours for many of the NPC/IFC organizations, due to the requirements to be an active member of the organization. Members of TBS and KKPsi must be active in at least one (and encouraged to be in two) university band program each semester, which means all rehearsals and performances. When you're talking marching and pep band programs, the hours rack up-- quickly.

Perhaps those of you who look down on those of us in these orgs might want to take another view-- not to join, but to see that yes, we're different. But we're no less Greek than you guys are. And no less chapters of brothers and sisters. We just have a larger hill to climb every year.

beg to differ
 

sai states on its national website it is "an international music fraternity" and tau beta sigma states,and i paraphrase,"that it's membership is open to band members". nothing at all wrong with that, and yes your orgs. do have greek names, but most people do not equate them as greek in the sense that they do npc and ifc groups. go to any of the npc sororities websites and read their purpose: they are all similar. they are very different from the purposes of sai and tbs, which are music related and formed to promote mutual interests in music.

i did not find on either website that they were promoted as social organizations.

Re: beg to differ
 

This is exactly why at some schools SAI and TBS aren't regarded as "greek" organizations, but they're an important, active group at other colleges. With no overarching, national stated purpose to advance "social" ideals, chapters vary, and vary widely in programming, membership standards, activity and closeness of members.

For the members of these organizations these are NOT sleights aimed at you or your organization, just a statement of observations within my own Greek experiences which is limited to my knowledge of Greek Systems at basically Nebraska, Kansas, and Kansas State (I guess Oklahoma and Okie State too). It's also an explanation towards the original question of this thread, as to why some might "favor" one of their GLO's over another.

Re: beg to differ
 

The reason you do not see them as Greek is because you choose not to, or you're taught not to. If all of the NPC sororities have a similar purpose, then I would ask what the point of having multiple organizations is?

Answer (for all GLO's): Because each one has a particular niche that its members find appealing.

While the purposes of TBS are done using music, their eventual goal is life-wide. They are summed up as follows:

Purpose #1 is an appreciation of music.

Purpose #2 is to recognize those who who excell and challenge themselves beyond normal expectations

Purpose #3 is to develop skills of leadership, integrity, and good conduct

Purpose #4 is to promote challenge and achievement

Purpose #5 is to promote community and companionship

These purposes are not that far from what NPC sororities have. We just go about it in a different way-- using our love of music as a way to visualize that goal.

~ Mel.

Re: beg to differ
 

I've been watching this thread with interest. Honestly, if someone who is an SAI and an XYZ decides that her membership in XYZ is more important, it's probably for the best. Perhaps XYZ needs her more, or she gets more out of it. That's cool. All that matters to me is that SAI remains strong and successful, as we have for the past 100 years. Each organization should do its best, and not worry about anyone else. It's not a competition.

Since there were posts making reference to SAI's Purpose, I thought I'd post it here. #1-#3 are music related, the rest are fairly fraternity-generic:
1. TO FORM chapters of women college students and alumnae who have a sincere interest in music.
2. TO UPHOLD the highest standards of music.
3. TO FURTHER the development of music in America and throughout the world.
4. TO GIVE inspiration and encouragement to members.
5. TO ORGANIZE the cultural life of Sigma Alpha Iota members as a contributing factor to their educational growth.
6. TO SUPPORT the ideals and goals of the member's Alma Mater;
7. TO ADHERE to the highest standards of citizenship in school, community and fraternity life.