Stranag glad you posted these Pics!:)

Anyone is free to try to organize at an HBCU but if the interest isn't there on campus it will be hard to sustain. Not every HBCU campus has all nine of the NPHC groups for that reason among others. Larger HBCUs that are not exclusively African American do have other organizations present than the NPHC orgs. And not every PWI has even half representation of NPHC orgs. Fraternities and Sororities, no matter the cultural makeup, go where they are wanted or can be sustained. Feel free to try to colonize at Fisk University (my alma mater) but the competition is already tight and we don't have all the orgs represented (last time I was there anyway) so it would be difficult to drum up interest.

I understand everyone's view on the situation...but I think my question kinda got mixed up between my mind and typing, lol.

What I am saying is that it is much more common to see a BLGO on a white campus than a non BGLO on an HBCU campus OTHER than professional, honorary, recognition, etc. There are plenty of HBCU chapters of predominantly white orgs floatin around (such as Tau Beta Sigma, Gamma Sigma Sigma, and Delta Sigma Pi, among others) To me, that speaks more on the willingness to diversify than purely numbers. In Ebony magazine a few years back, there was an article about whites joining the D9 orgs, and had testimonies from whit ememebrs of most of the groups. even on my campus I have seen non-blacks as a part of the D9, and 5 out of 9 of them were founded at my school.

I often go to the websites of some of the larger non-BLGOs and never see a brown face....ever. To me, that says that I am indirectly not welcome...

The fact that there were interst groups on HBCU campuses says that there is an INTEREST...but if your org doesn't seem very diverse, it makes it harder to try and see through the process of colonization.

just my humble opinion

NO
 

We have one brother in our chapter of African American decent, and he gets sh** from members of African American Fraternity members for being a trader - so and so - and for being in an organization that was once "racist"...

Well in my humble opinion, cultural fraternities are more racist than other organizations resembling GLO's !

So no, don't integrate, because THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO...

And that's not biased, as I am of mixed ancestry myself!


GO BEACH!!!

Re: NO
 

This attitude is not limited to your campus.

There was a gentleman that sat in my section in the school's orchestra who I tried to recruit. He happened to be black.

He told me basically that he'd be very interested, except for the fact that his roomie was an Alpha Phi Alpha. He had been told essentially (and this is definitely paraphrased) that he'd be ostracized by many of his friends if he joined a "white" fraternity.

In this instance, and many more, it seems that "white" fraternities are much more accepting these days than our peer groups on the other side of the proverbial tracks.

Re: Re: NO
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ktsnake
[B]This attitude is not limited to your campus.

There was a gentleman that sat in my section in the school's orchestra who I tried to recruit. He happened to be black.

He told me basically that he'd be very interested, except for the fact that his roomie was an Alpha Phi Alpha. He had been told essentially (and this is definitely paraphrased) that he'd be ostracized by many of his friends if he joined a "white" fraternity.

I think this feeling that you had/have as a result of this being said goes both ways. There are plenty of white people who probably would not mind joining a BGLO, but who are afraid of how their friends and family would react and treat them. People do not want to come out of their comfort zones or he old set-up systems of division.

As for the white organizations being more accepting, I don't think so. They may have these spoken or unspoken methods of diversifying or even establish some form of a quota system, but what do we see happening a lot of times once these non-whites get in? What we see are events like the black-face incidents. Yes, I brought that to this thread because it's relevant. Not all white chapters have had members who have done this, but the word definitely, as we have seen on this message board, has gotten around and I know I would feel incredibly uncomfortable if I were in a white org. and another org. with black members had a chapter whose members were so insensitive as to do something like that. Its things like that which make black people (a lot of the time) say to themselves "there's no way I'm joining one of those orgs if I have to put up with that". I also have YET to hear about a black org. having a chapter whose members dress up in white-face or doing things culturally insulting to white people. he black people around your friend asked him those questions probably because of this very reason. So, while people are trying to draw a conclusion of mutual responsibility for these orgs to diversify their memberships, there are many reasons, at least from the vantage point of the BGLO, why there are still differences. I am speaking directly to you, Ktsnake now, just like anything else in this society of stereotypes, while its great to feel like thinking in terms of generalizations is wrong, the actions of a few do affect the whole group. If you're so concerned about black people not wanting to or flocking in great numbers to join white organizations, think about that concern the next time you jump so fast to defend the likes of those in white orgs who already have bad histories in this area who do humiliating things to the people they are trying to attract.

Your friend may have had a valid point, I am sure he did. I could see that happening and it is really unfortunate. But can you honestly say that had you joined a BGLO that NONE of your family or friends would have looked at you funny or questioned your reasons? Let's be real.

Well, let's get one thing straight: Although your traditionally white GLO's are predominantly white, they do not exist for the sole purpose of benefiting the white community, the white culture, etc. Conversely, BGLO's celebrate black culture and generally exist for the benefit of the black community. Where one might argue that because the members of most chapters of predominantly white GLO's are white, and they exist in mostly white communities that the purpose of their existence is to benefit white people. I would argue that since they don't state that explicit purpose, they exist not to benefit a certain racial group -- but whatever group or groups their members happen to be from.

Having gone to a couple of national events for my fraternity, I can certainly say that many of our chapters are very diverse. I could even go so far as to say that in some of our chapters, white members are a minority.

I argue this because I think you made a generalization about my type of GLO that is unfair. I think you would be hard pressed to argue that my characterization of BGLO's is an unfair generalization.

---

You bring up black face incidents.

Let's see if you agree with this statement:

Some white people wish they could lynch all black folks. Therefore, all white people are racists.

That's an extreme example of what you're arguing. While it's true that black face occurs, I'd say it occurs probably less than 10 times per year. In my mind, that basically puts it on the same level as school shootings. It's something that has been over sensationalized and talked to death to the point that we think it goes on everywhere -- especially on this board. Out of the thousands and maybe tens-of-thousands of predominantly white chapters out there, maybe 10 or less of these incidents happen per year. Is that a problem epidemic to the system? You'd be hard-pressed to argue that it is.

As you've said, white face is a different thing entirely. Saying that you as a black person have never heard of someone wearing whiteface is not even comparable. For one thing, if it occurred, it wouldn't even be newsworthy. For another thing, it's probably a lot harder to do. I've seen black actors do it in movies to portray white characters, but that's about the extent of any "whiteface" I've seen (think Eddie Murphy playing the Jewish guy in the barbershop in "Coming to America"). It's just not the same thing though.

One thing that his message board has taught me is that different regions view race differently. The South is still caught up in a civil rights struggle. The further you get away from there, the more things we all seem to have in common.

Yes, I was fairly shocked by my friend's response -- I didn't expect it at all. In fact, we as a fraternity have active relations with NPHC organizations on our campus. That is probably the chief reason that it kind of caught me off guard.

Actually, without bringing the cultural relevance and historical time frame into play, YES I would say your characterization is incorret. With the exception of one of the D9 orgs we were founded at a time when we were NOT ALLOWED to join any other fraternity and sorority and not only were racism and sexism present they were the norm. In order to uplift not only the college students who were blessed enough to be able to afford to attend universities in the early 1900s but to assist the communities in which they lived our organizations were founded. Yes our organizations have continued to focus our efforts in that community, typically because no one else is doing it. That doesn't mean that we don't do programming elsewhere or with organizations that are not BGLOs.

If at some point the entire US population is on equal footing MAYBE our focus will change but as long as most minority groups are still playing catch up, organizations founded by them will be most concerned with how we can improve ourselves first.

I wasn't talking about the early 1900's. I was talking about now. And I never said you didn't want any programming with organizations besides BGLO's. Heck, on my campus, some BGLO's are active participants in IFC/PHC stuff (others are not).

However, the primary purpose is enhancing the black community -- true or false?

yes, because BGLO's are about service. specifically towards to black community.

Any NEW CHAPTER of a BGLO is founded for the same reasons it was founded in the 1900s. To enhance and protect the African American community. While there has been some change to the language, our mission has been consistent. This may again just be a difference in why our organizations were founded and have maintained, but while we are founded to reach out to our community, we do not exclude anyone else in doing so. Every organization has things its members must do, to join our orgs you must be willing to serve the Black community no matter what your racial background.

I never knew the BGLOs' primary purpose was service until I came to this board. At my alma mater, we had 3 or 4 chapters of BGLOs (2 fraternities definitely, and 1 sorority definitely, and I think we had another sorority, only because I would see 3 or 4 cars w/ the license plates on them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they had an active chapter there.), but the only time we saw them was when they were putting on a step show, when they were fundraising, or when they walked around campus in their jackets. None of them were "integrated" (I don't think anyways), but there was one "white girl" who joined the sorority....and everyone knew she had crossed because she was black and blue for almost two weeks afterward.

I think the reason (at least on my campus) the BGLOs weren't integrated was because: 1-nobody really knew what they were all about, other than being "the black fraternity" or "the black sorority". This is only due to them not being very visible (well, the one fraternity that hosted the annual step show was visible), or no one knowing what they were all about. The aforementioned sorority would always co-sponsor the blood drive w/ my sorority each year, but it was more of a way for them to put their name on it - none of their sisters were ever there. 2-obviously the recruitment styles are different. If a "white girl" wants to join a sorority on that campus, she knows, through advertising, that there are x amount of NPC sororities and when recruitment is. She may not be observant enough to know that there even is a BGLO on the campus, and if she is, she doesn't know how to join, because they don't hold open recruitment, and if they do, it's not advertised. If she doesn't have a class w/ any of the members, she doesn't know any of them to ask about it. She may not even see any members walking around campus...and if she does and tries to approach them to ask about joining, the attitude is "Oh she's just trying to get to know me so she can become an ABC." Yes, that's true, because there's no other way! 3-as I mentioned earlier, the BGLOs on our campus were known for their hazing. I'm not saying this happens everywhere, but that's how they were seen on my campus. Why would you want to join a GLO that you know is going to haze you, when you can join another GLO that you know won't?

In contrast, at the local university, there are 3 NPCs, 3 IFCs, and then one BGLO fraternity and one BGLO sorority. I believe both the BGLOs are well-involved and very visible on campus, and the NPC sororities and IFC fraternities do events w/ both groups. However, I do not know if they are integrated (I am not involved w/ the campus enough to know). Also, I don't know how they advertise recruitment, what kind of service events they do, etc.

Anyways, the point of this post was just to give my observations of my experience at my undergraduate school. I'm not accusing any GLO of anything wrong. I'm also not saying it's wrong to have a different recruitment style, but I do think that may contribute to why BGLOs aren't as integrated (if they really aren't. Perhaps they are...?). Maybe BGLO sororities are members of Panhellenic on some campuses and do participate in formal recruitment....although I don't know enough about them to know if this is against their national rules or anything. I echo what most other people have said that you should join the GLO, whether it's an NPC, IFC, BGLO or MCGLO that you feel is the best fit for YOU, not your roommate or your mother or your father or someone you'll meet in the future, but for you.

We do not participate in formal recruitment cause it doesn't line up with our membership selection process. Not to undermine your experience but you can't base intergration of the groups at large on two campuses with limited representation of NPHC groups. I understand your post but in general, while I have been at PWIs the White community at large tended to ignore the NPHC groups unless there was a party, stepshow or coming out show. So it's hard to miss the fact that one of the fraternities sleeps out on the campus overnight to raise money for charity, or that the NPHC is having a voter registration drive during one of their weeks because it's not something that interests most of the campus for whatever reason. Each chapter will be different but a lot of the service undergrads around here do isn't open to the public to assist so it's not advertised. Fundraisers are because they draw in money to continue the chapter programming.

Wow, Service via the BGLOs, only, and that is what they stand for?.

That is totaly new to me and many others.

Thank you for pointing that out. I try to learn something new every day!


Why should not All GLOs be intergrated?

Is it not to the individual and to the Greek Organization?

they are integrated, get with the program.