I'm not talking about illegal or legal, i'm talking about right and wrong.

The only reason hazing is illegal is because some jacktards don't know the difference between right and wrong and become dangerous with thier pledging. If there weren't people putting others in harms way then hazing wouldnt be illegal, but as it stands the term hazing is associated with paddling, running, push ups, booze, etc

The definition of hazing is, "Actions or situations that recklessly or intentionally endanger the health, safety, or welfare of an individual for initiation, admission into, or affiliation with any university organization." To me, that is wrong. There is nothing right about hazing.

One of the bigger problems is that there isn't a single definition of hazing. There should be.

You could probably make a case for someone walking up behind another person and saying, "Boo!" as hazing.

Until there is a common definition (if ever), we simply have to stop anything that puts US in harms way.

see moe. thats a definition of hazing i can agree with, unfortunatly there are many who would include lineups, dressing in similar clothing, speaking in unison, or even scavanger hunts as hazing, now thats just retarded

All of the activities you mention are demeaning and embarassing, or have the capacity to be. Which of your GLOs principles relate to those activities? Alpha Gamma Delta's Purpose doesn't include any of those activities as ideals for which we strive.

they can also be used as effective tools of teaching people ideals and practical lessons

You can teach peoples ideals and practical lessons without being demeaning toward them. Why aren't you choosing men for your Fraternity who already exemplify your ideals and standards?

Wait now...let's think about this and look at some of these...

"dressing in similar clothing" - What about bid day? Do the girls not wear the same shirts, in general?

"speaking in unison" - Do NMs and actives not sing songs together in unison?

"even scavanger hunts" - I understand that things have happened, but scavenger hunts are FUN! I did them for church youth group when I was little and even when I was pledging Alpha Phi Omega.

It all depends on how you handle the "hazing" activities...

If a whole chapter is doing something together, like bid day shirts, singing, etc, it's not hazing, because it's everybody. It becomes an issue when you single out the new members as different or "lesser" than the initiated members. As I've said numerous times before on this board, if the "harmless" activities hadn't been changed and twisted in activities that were demeaning, embarassing or harmful, then there wouldn't be all these rules. They were, repeatedly, they still are, far too frequently. Zero tolerance and red flag activities will remain as long as any abuses are present.

Here
 

Two "definition of hazing" questions of the past week:

1 - Is required "study hall" for pledges hazing? One natl. sorority poster said it is.

2 - In high school soccer, requiring each freshman (not on varsity) to be a ball boy at a varsity game. Ball boys retrieve the out-of-bounds balls. A soccer mom is calling this hazing.

Re: Here
 

Two more good examples of hazing definitions gone awry. Next, parents forcing kids to do chores will be hazing!

I believe the study halls for New Members is considered hazing by NPC standards, but study halls are not considered hazing at the state level (as far as I know).

In general, state hazing laws are in place to protect people from the extremes, not to limit activities that pledges/aspirants/new members can do.

Here's an off the wall example of a good pledge activity gone wrong. Mandatory study hours are a great thing. They give pledges an opportunity to get together with other pledges (this REALLY helps students who aren't good at study skills get together with students who are in a non-threatening environment). BUT, if organizations are planning study hours FOR the pledges - like during class time or at 3 AM or something - that's unacceptable in my opinion.

Personally, I think all pledges should be required to attend all their classes unless there is a medical or family emergency. I also think that the rules about uniterrupted sleep are very important. If there were ever fewer than six hours of uninterrupted sleep, I would be disgusted with a pledge program.

If the study hall is just for new members, then it is hazing because it seperates pledges from sisters.
Hazing includes anything that seperates sisters from new members.

Again, according to NPC rules, not state laws.

The only difference between new members and initiated members is how much education about the Fraternity they have had. Every new member is as good as every initiated member, they simply don't know as much as fraternity education. You should be choosing new members who fit your organization's ideals and standards. We aren't the military who feel a need to break a spirit and make it conform to who we want them to be. We select members who are living up to our ideals already. We loved these women during recruitment and we need to keep recruiting members for the duration of their membership in Alpha Gamma Delta (which means for life!).

Most AGD chapters require study hours of every sister. Who better to help new members who are struggling scholastically than older members who have had those classes already and understand the expectations?

By integrating new members and initiated members into all activities, you create unity within a chapter. The seniors know the freshman, the sophomores hang with with juniors, etc. It helps reduce the "class" cliques.

The purpose of the new member period is to educate the new members about the inner workings of the organization, orient them to policy and procedure and integrate them into sisterhood. If all members (new and initiated) are doing things together, they learn these things by practice and role modeling.

Just as I will probably never convince some that hazing is wrong under any circumstance, you will never convince me that it is ok under any circumstance. But, I'm never going to stop trying on my end!

Dee

good post ... dee