Both, trying to keep people laughing so the thread doesn't get ocked. The first two things were serious, the rest was me being silly with Geeky Penguin and Kitso because I have talked to them enough to know that I didn't cross the line there.

I am very passionate about this subject because my HS's nickname was the Redskins until my junior year. We always felt that we did nothing but honor the Native American people and we never did anything derogitory in any way, but they found our masot offensive so they sued us. My school was very small so we did not want to spent the money to go to court and fight for what we believed in because that is not why pople pay taxes. We had a lawyer willing to represent us for free but the school board felt it would be better just to change the mascot and got our school out of the spotlight. I have argued this subject with many people on different football message boards and of course in person too. For some reason when your mascot was a Redskin you feel pride and honor for it and the Native American people, but I also understand why they do not feel it is right for teams to have a mascot such as this. However when you are the person who goes to that school (an one of the most spirited!) you find it hard to explain to an outsider why you feel these things for this mascot. It upsets me that we had to change because we grew up with that mascot, that is what we identified with. (I know, many people have told me that it is not a good thing to identify yourself with a "derogoitory" word such as that.) However, no matter what my HS's mascot is I will always be a Redskin!

Mini hijack,

Hey Kitso, check out this link for some information you might find interesting:

http://www.loc.gov/bicentennial/prop...h_kaptur5.html

The newly discovered location, now owned by the city of Toledo was, for many years, Mrs. DeltAlum's father's farm -- and several generations of their family before. It was purchased by the city when he retired.

She attended Anthony Wayne High School, named after the American general who commanded the U.S. forces -- a very strange man.

The short article also mentions Little Turtle, Chief of the Miami Indians -- a part of the Illinois (EDIT Huge typo here -- for any who may have already read this, it was the Iroquois Confederacy -- sorry, brain f*rt) Conferderacy of Native Americans --who were Wayne's adversary during the battle.

The keynote speech at the opening of the new Fallen Timbers park actually mentions the road that fronts the farm/now park. Here is a link to that speech.

Both are short, so I hope you can take a minute to read them.

http://www.heidelberg.edu/FallenTimb...mmemorate.html

During the over 50 years he farmed that land, he collected hundreds, actually probably thousands, of arrowheads, musketballs, tomahawk heads, skinning stones and other artifacts. He still keeps a few, but most were donated to various museums, etc.

End of hijack, thank you for your indulgence.

SigKap, was your pride really in the MASCOT? Or was it in the school itself? Did you matriculate through the Redskin mascot? What exactly was the source of pride?

I went to FSU, home of the Seminoles. We have war chants, Renegade the horse, and Chief Osceola. We also have a "pow wow" (pep rally) every year for homecoming.

The REAL Seminoles protest before almost every game. They have consistently voiced their disdain at being used this way. Yet, the traditions are so deep that I seriously doubt it will ever change. I have attended seminars and done extensive research on the background of the Seminole. They are TOTALLY misrepresented by my university...yet I still get chill in the pregame ritual when Renegade runs onto the field and Chief Osceola buries the burning spear in midfield.

My point is that I am vehemently against using NA's as team mascots, yet I, too, am affected by the rich tradition behind the way the University uses the mascot.

It's difficult.

Yes, it is. The Munchkin family is connected to the Seminoles, and I went to a HS that used Native American symbols and names. We were the "Big Green Indians," did the Tomahawk Chop, had a totem pole in the front of the school, and a lot of other stuff. Since our relationship with the Choctaw tribe was similar to that Miami supposedly had, it was not that offensive to me as someone with that background. BUT...there were other things. One of my high school teachers who was also of Native American ancestry tried to get the school to change some things, most notably their use of the word "squaw" to describe the head cheerleader :rolleyes:. Her request was met with a lot of rolled eyes and insults from people who didn't care what that word meant--it was tradition for crying out loud! :rolleyes: Since I have little or no contact with my high school now, I have no idea how things are. Being a "Big Green Indian" made me proud at 15, but in my 20s, I'm more than a little ambivalent.

St. John's University in NYC had the Redmen as their mascot. Several years ago they changed it to Red Storm. I think that St. John's was able to strike a balance between the traditions of their sport teams and respect for Native American culture and heritage. Now if only they could win a basketball championship. :)

This thread reminds me of a Sopranos episode I saw a few weeks ago. The Native American community was protesting Columbus Day and the Italian community was protesting them protesting. I never realized how offended Native Americans might be about Columbus Day (unless it was a completely made up scenario). Made me stop and think.

I guess I kind of stated that wrong. I meant that the school took pride in that mascot as a whole. It was something that brought us together.

This thread reminds me of my summer class in Native American Anthropology...ahh..memories.. :p

Anyway...all I have to say is that my University's mascot is the "Redmen". My grade school was the "Defenders" as in "The Defenders of Christ" yeah. My high school was the "Blue Devils"..we had the "Black Knights", "Rebels", "Marauders" (basically angry Frenchmen :p) and the like. It still surprises me to this day that none of these schools weren't sued.

No, it's not made up.

Consider poor old DeltAlum, who is of Cherokee ancestry and was born and raised in Columbus, Ohio. How confused can one man be? At least I'm not Italian. But I dated a few.

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

I might be kind of slow....but I skimmed the thread and didn't see anyone correct this...

We also talked about this in my Cross cultural journalism class- they just ruled to KEEP Chief Illiniwek for now.
Apparently as big of an issue as this is these days, there are still plenty of people willing to keep traditions going.

By the way, the Fighting Quakers or whatever the hell that is is the most AWESOME mascot I have ever heard of :D That's like the Brawling Amish or some shit :p

[hijack/] Digging deeper into this is the misplaced stereotypes. Totem poles are not likely representative of your area (I don't think you live out this way Munchkin, but please correct me if I am wrong). They are specific to the Northwest Coastal areas. Woodworking like that stretches from the north west coast of the US, all the way up into Alaska including Canada. Tomahawk and squaw are both Algonquin words, which was spoken in the Eastern part of North America, so it is rather incorrect when used elsewhere. Although many groups were moved west, so the language did spread. I mean hell, for the statement that using these things is "honoring", at least get the tribe/nation/language/culture correct. [/end hijack]

AXJules, GeekyP and I discussed it. I decided on "Angry Amish" with two guys holding crossed rakes in an aggressive manner (I am KIDDING).

DA,

i'm disappointed you didn't jump on this, but there was an actual protest by Native Americans at a Columbus day parade that was held this year!

Russell Means and other Lakota demonstraters protested and served the parade organizers with a request that they acknowledge the damage done to NA's following Columbus' "discovery" of America.

It was in Denver.

Kitso
KS 361

THUPER. Found the mascot:
http://www.stuff-o-rama.com/amish.jpg

But I was in Columbus. Really. I didn't even hear about it!

Well, actually, I was in the air. I flew back to Denver on Columbus Day after homecoming weekend at Ohio University.

By the way, the original word for Ohio was the Native American word OYO, meaning Beautiful River.