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AlphaSigOU

07-06-2004 07:48 PM

Maj. Schmidt gets his Article 15...

(Emphasis in text mine)

Quote:

Pilot in Mistaken Bombing Reprimanded
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 5:44 p.m. ET

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- A U.S. fighter pilot who mistakenly bombed Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan in 2002, killing four, was found guilty Tuesday of dereliction of duty and was reprimanded and docked a month's pay, or nearly $5,700.

Maj. Harry Schmidt, 38, "acted shamefully'' during the episode, "exhibiting arrogance and a lack of flight discipline,'' Air Force Lt. Gen. Bruce Carlson wrote in the reprimand.

Schmidt, a former instructor at the Navy's "Top Gun'' fighter pilot school, had blamed the bombing on the "fog of war,'' saying he mistook the Canadians' gunfire for an attack by Taliban forces. He said his superiors never told him that the Canadians would be conducting live-fire exercises near Kandahar airport that night.

He was originally charged with manslaughter and aggravated assault, but the charges were reduced last year to dereliction of duty.

Carlson said Schmidt had become impatient waiting for permission from air controllers to attack what he believed was Taliban artillery. He was warned to "make sure it's not friendlies'' before firing.

The reprimand said Schmidt should have taken evasive action rather than attack and accused him of lying about his motivation for the bombing, using "the inherent right of self-defense as an excuse to wage your own war.''

Charles Gittins, Schmidt's civilian lawyer, has said an Air Force-issued amphetamine given to pilots to help them stay awake on long missions might have impaired the pilot's judgment. However, Col. Richard Harding, a judge advocate general with the Air Force, said Gittins presented no evidence regarding the pills in last week's hearing.

Schmidt's lawyer did not immediately return a call seeking comment Tuesday.

Schmidt's mission commander, Maj. William Umbach, who was in a second F-16, also was charged with assault and manslaughter. Those charges were dismissed last summer, and he was reprimanded for "leadership failures'' and allowed to retire.

The case against the two Illinois National Guardsmen has been closely watched in Canada, where many were outraged by the bombing and the two days it took President Bush to publicly apologize.

The four soldiers who died were the first Canadians killed in combat since the Korean War. Eight others were wounded.

Maureen Decaire, mother of one of the Canadians injured in the bombing, said she understands that Schmidt did not intend to cause harm, but the decision still leaves her unsatisfied.

"I would like to see him accept responsibility, which I don't think has happened,'' she said from Winnipeg.

Schmidt was found guilty after a closed, non-judicial hearing held last week at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana. The Air Force had announced last month that it would not court-martial Schmidt; he could have gotten up to six months in prison if convicted at a court-martial.

Schmidt remains in the Air National Guard but has agreed never to fly Air Force jets again.

In videotape of the mission taken from Schmidt's F-16, he can be heard telling air controllers that he and his mission commander were under attack and requesting permission to open fire with his 20 mm cannon.

"Hold fire,'' an air controller responded.

Four seconds later, Schmidt said: "It looks like a piece of artillery firing at us. I'm rolling in, in self-defense.''

He released a 500-pound, laser-guided bomb 39 seconds after the "hold fire'' order.

Well... looks like Maj. Schmidt just had his 'career dissipation' light go on. With his rank and an Article 15, he'll never see 'bottlecap colonel' (Lt. Colonel). Only thing he'll be flying is a desk until he gets enough reserve points to retire.

RACooper

07-06-2004 08:00 PM

Well it took a little more than two years but.... some justice has been delivered in the case of the four members of the PPCLI killed in a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan.

However as seen in the post provided by AlphaSigOU there is still a some biterness... mainly directed towards Mj. Schmidt and his apparent inability to accept any blame or take any responsibilty for his actions.

Personally I'm happy that he won't fly again, and hopefully this will also preclude him from being a instructor as well... if he had accepted resposiblity I would have had no problem with him being an instructor... perhaps if he had demostrated the honour of the other pilot involved...

For another take on the story (well from the Canadian point off view) use this link to the CBC story:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/07/06.../schmidt040706

For something a little more indepth on the whole thing the following link is pretty good:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

Oh and here's a link to the text of the verdict:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/fr...e/verdict.html

I think the text speaks for itself (it's pretty harsh in its language)... and pretty much covers my feelings on the case.

AlphaSigOU

07-06-2004 08:21 PM

I forgot to add... the LOR (letter of reprimand) becomes a permanent part of Major Schmidt's UIF (Unfavorable Information File). And since the LOR was issued by a general officer (the 8th Air Force commander) it's practically a kiss of death to a military career. If he was still on active duty, and too far away from collecting a pension, the next stop for him would be to file papers resigning his commission.

I wouldn't be surprised if later an Air Force flying evaluation board strips him of his wings - both silver and gold.

Stinger: "And if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong!"
Maverick: "Yes sir!"

Maj. Schmidt ain't even getting that remedial opportunity.

RACooper

07-06-2004 08:40 PM

AlphaSigOU I'd love to know what you think of the text... it always helps to have more viewponts posted on an issue. As your much more knowledgable on US military justice I'd love to here your take on the General's text.

AlphaSigOU

07-06-2004 09:27 PM

(NOTE: This is how the U.S. Air Force does it... Army, Navy/Marines and Coast Guard have something similar but also somewhat different.)

Letters of admonishment take two forms: letters of counseling (LOC) and letters of reprimand (LOR).

A letter of counseling is in effect a "watch your ass, 'cause we're watching you" letter. This is usually given by the offender's immediate supervisor. They generally do not get filed in an Unfavorable Information File (UIF) unless a pattern of LOCs result in an LOR.

A letter of reprimand is much more serious, and usually has one pay a stand-up visit to the commander. An LOR may be given also as a part of non-judicial (Article 15) punishment. In some cases, the LOR stays in the orderly room file for a certain amount of time, usually until you PCS (Permanent Change of Station -transfer to another base), but most times an LOR remains in the UIF permanently, especially if you're an officer. Only the commander (or higher authority in the chain of command) can remove anything from a person's UIF.

Major Schmidt's LOR was written by the 8th Air Force commander, Lt. General Bruce Carlson, who was also the general court-martial convening authority in Majors Schmidt and Umbach's court-martial. Most LORs are written using a template following a prescribed method, with the assistance of the military's Staff Judge Advocate:

Quote:

SAMPLE LETTER OF REPRIMAND

(Appropriate Letterhead)

Date

MEMORANDUM FOR (Member’s Grade, Name, SSN)

FROM: I.M. Supervisor

SUBJECT: Letter of (Reprimand) (Admonition)

1. (An investigation)(Evidence) has disclosed that you [include factual allegation – see sample allegations for possible forms].

2. [Second and subsequent paragraphs should be added for each additional item of misconduct. Begin these paragraphs with “(Further investigation)(Further evidence) has disclosed” or “(Additional investigation)(Additional evidence) has disclosed” and complete the allegation using tailored language from the sample allegations.]

3. You are hereby (reprimanded) (admonished). [Tailor the language of one of the forms found in the sample reprimands/admonishments to complete the paragraph.]

4. AUTHORITY: 10 U.S.C. 8013. PURPOSE: To obtain any comments or documents you desire to submit (on a voluntary basis) for consideration concerning this action. ROUTINE USES: Provides you an opportunity to submit comments or documents for consideration. If provided, the comments and documents you submit become a part of the action. DISCLOSURE: Your written acknowledgment of receipt and signature are mandatory. Any other comment or document you provide is voluntary.

5. You will acknowledge receipt and return this letter to me within three (3) workdays of your receipt. Any comments or documents you wish to be considered concerning this letter will be included with your response.

Name, Rank, USAF
Position

1st Ind, (Member’s Rank and Name)

TO: (Name of person who issued letter.)

I acknowledge receipt on ____________, 2004. I understand that I have three (3) workdays from the date of this letter to provide a response, and that I must include in my response any comments or documents I wish to be considered concerning this letter.

Members’ Name, Rank, USAF
Member’s SSN

2nd Ind, (Name of person who issued letter)

Date

Member (did)(did not) provide written matters in response to this letter.

Name, Rank, USAF
Position

The person who signs the LOR determines the severity. By General Carlson authoring the LOR to Maj. Schmidt, it effectively kills an officer's career. There'd have to be a major (so to speak) killing off of the pool of promotable majors in the promotion board before the lieutenant colonel selection board would even consider him... and even then, they'd start going after the senior captains before they'd consider promoting (in the bluntest of military slang terms) a 'sh*tbag'.

Quoting AFI (Air Force Instruction) 36-3206, Administrative Discharge Procedures for Commissioned Officers:

Quote:

Continued service as an officer is a privilege which may be terminated when such action is determined to be in the best interest of the Air Force.

By virtue of their appointments, officers serve in positions of trust and assume continuing responsibilities for leadership and example. Inherently, these responsibilities require effective performance of duty and exemplary conduct. Officers who fail to meet and maintain performance standards consistent with their grade and experience or who fail to maintain high standards of professional and personal conduct show themselves unworthy of officer status.

IowaStatePhiPsi

07-06-2004 10:10 PM

Rob- did you really expect the Americans on here to take kindly to advice for America to play by the rules they expect everyone else to follow?

I feel for ya man- though I dont think anyone I know was ever killed by "'friendly' fire"- it's a sad tragedy.

Air National Guard... the same smart people as George Dumbya Bush...

RACooper

07-06-2004 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Rob- did you really expect the Americans on here to take kindly to advice for America to play by the rules they expect everyone else to follow?

I feel for ya man- though I dont think anyone I know was ever killed by "'friendly' fire"- it's a sad tragedy.

Air National Guard... the same smart people as George Dumbya Bush...

Actually we don't use the term "friendly-fire" in Canada... I was doing that for the sake of the Americans on the board.. and because the Canadian/British term has some interesting conotations on this board... we use the term "Fratricide".

As for America following the rules... it's an arguement I have with every country including my own. It's just that the US has been a paragon of social and political change and empowerment that other nations looked to as an example to emulate... as such it is more painful for me to see that image tarnished by the actions of different administrations, in particular G.W.Bush's.

I don't want to touch your last comment... as I don't believe that all National Guardsmen could or should be tainted by the actions of Mj. Schmidt.. in the same way that the military as a whole should not be tainted by the actions of personnel mistreating prisoners... in fact I have to acknowledge the integrity of Mj. Schmidt's flight leader Mj. Umbach... he followed the ROE and tried to do the right thing, he also accepted resposiblity for the actions of Mj. Schmidt, as the leader of the flight, an act that Mj. Schmidt has yet to do. In short Mj. Umbach took honourable action, as I'm sure most officers would.. my beef was personally with Schmidt and his cadre of supporters that engaged in a fair amount of Canada bashing, as well as blaming everyone but the man how "pushed the button"....

KSig RC

07-07-2004 12:43 AM

Quote:

Who in the hell are you?

Look - the guy who did this was, to use an ASigOU-approved term, a douchebag . . . but he was given what amounts to a career death sentence. Realistically, it was the extent of punishment allowed under military law (at least as far as I understand this court-martialling could have gone, correct me if I'm wrong). He's finished as an officer. We can argue if he 'deserves' more punishment, but realistically, this is about as harsh as this court could have dealt. What exactly would you have liked to see differently? (note that i'm setting a trap here, smart guy)

As far as belittling the Guard in general . . . well, hopefully there are guardsmen on here who can set you straight, b/c that's a total asshole statement. YOU are a douche for insinuating a lack of intelligence for all Air National Guard members.

Rudey

07-11-2004 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
Who in the hell are you?

Look - the guy who did this was, to use an ASigOU-approved term, a douchebag . . . but he was given what amounts to a career death sentence. Realistically, it was the extent of punishment allowed under military law (at least as far as I understand this court-martialling could have gone, correct me if I'm wrong). He's finished as an officer. We can argue if he 'deserves' more punishment, but realistically, this is about as harsh as this court could have dealt. What exactly would you have liked to see differently? (note that i'm setting a trap here, smart guy)

As far as belittling the Guard in general . . . well, hopefully there are guardsmen on here who can set you straight, b/c that's a total asshole statement. YOU are a douche for insinuating a lack of intelligence for all Air National Guard members.

He wants to marry you because you're gay but I keep telling him YOU ARE MINE!!!

-Rudey

RACooper

03-15-2005 07:25 PM

Well it looks like my ol'friend Major Schmidt has given an interview about how he has suffered emotionally because of the firendly-fire incident.... and yet still has not apologized to the families of the men he killed:mad:

Disgraced pilot suicidal over friendly fire deaths
Maj. Harry Schmidt bares soul to magazine
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmon...a-88dd979cff43
The above link included because it's local (for the PPCLI - the unit involved) coverage, and because it's free to access.

U.S. pilot who dropped bomb on Canadian soldiers haunted by memories
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...y_fire_schmidt

Quote:

(CP) - The U.S. fighter pilot who dropped the bomb that killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan says he is haunted by memories of the incident and the suffering of the victims' families, but he still can't say he's sorry.

Maj. Harry Schmidt, in his first major interview since the 2002 friendly fire incident, told a U.S. publication that not a day goes by that he doesn't think of the families of the dead Canadian soldiers. But Schmidt says he was a victim of circumstances beyond his control.

"I was the wingman," the former pilot tells Chicago Magazine in its April issue.

"I was not in charge of making decisions. It was, 'Shut up. hang on and say, Yes, sir.' I was the lowest person on the totem pole. I was, in effect, along for the ride."

The attack killed Pte. Richard Green, Pte. Nathan Smith, Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer and Sgt. Marc Leger. They were the first Canadians to die in combat since the Korean War.

Eight others, all members of the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, were injured.

In a reprimand from the U.S. Air Force, Schmidt, an Illinois National Guardsman, was accused of acting "shamefully" and exhibiting "arrogance and lack of flight discipline" during the deadly incident.

He was grounded and fined $5,000.

Schmidt appeared stoic during the inquiry into the incident, but his wife, Lisa, says she thought he was suicidal.

"I was afraid he was going to kill himself," Lisa Schmidt says in the magazine article.

Schmidt's personal anquish provides little solace for relatives of the four victims.

Joyce Clooney, grandmother of Pte. Richard Green, said Tuesday she would like Schmidt to stop defending his actions and say he's sorry.

"He should have made a public apology to the families," Clooney said in an interview from her home in Bridgewater, N.S.

"It would have meant a lot more coming from him than the president apologizing to the prime minister. It wasn't the prime minister's children or grandchildren who were killed. His problem is he always blames everyone else for what happened."

Richard and Claire Leger, parents of Sgt. Marc Leger, said the U.S. pilot's comments are too little, too late.

"I felt suicidal and I'm pretty darn sure that all of us felt suicidal," Claire Leger said.

"So welcome to the gang . . . We're all stuck in the same boat."

Richard Leger added that Schmidt would do well to remember his role in their son's death.

"He has never really helped any of the families. If he did anything, he made it worse."

Schmidt blames the bombing, on the night of April 17, 2002, on "the fog of war," saying he mistook the Canadian gunfire for an attack from Taliban fighters.

The pilot says superiors never told him the Canadians would be conducting live-fire exercises near Kandahar airport that night.

As well, Schmidt says he was flying under difficult conditions, on a long, 11-hour mission pumped up on amphetamines called "go pills."

He tells Chicago Magazine that the fight to defend himself, to explain his actions to the government, the military and the people of Canada and the United States, has inhibited his own grieving process.

"I don't know if I have been able to fully grieve," he says. "Because I was in a position where I had to protect my family from the start."

Schmidt was originally charged with manslaughter and aggravated assault, which could have resulted in a jail term, but the charges were reduced to dereliction of duty.

Maj. William Umbach, the flight leader, was also charged with assault and manslaughter.

Those charges were dismissed last summer and he was allowed to retire from the Air National Guard, as he had requested.

Personally I'd love to see the interview he gave to NBC...

Optimist Prime

03-15-2005 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damasa

War is hell, .

War is also incredibly stupid. I'm not allowed to serve because of the medication I take but this asshole is a Captain in the friggin Air Force. I really hate my country sometimes.

Tom Earp

03-15-2005 08:34 PM

Yes, this shit happens doesnt it?

I love Friendly Fire euphaisms!

No matter what is said, there are people Dead.

A bullet is not friendly, it is a killer and that it is why People in The Military are carrying Weapons. Weapons are made to kill people, plain and simple.

I carried a weapon for 7 years. I had God in my hand and it was not a thing taken lightly.

Yes with the termoul that is happening, I always figured it is better Thee than Me.

Been there and done it. If you havent, please dont try to second guess until you have looked down the barrel of a gun. It is huge no damn doubt about it!

If you never been in a shooting situation dont second guess.

People "normally" dont like to Kill People. It does weigh Heavily on ones mind.

I remember every wreck I was envolved in when I could have been killed, I can remember everytime I aimed a Weapon at someone. I still think about seeing someone burn alive because I could not get to them fast enough or scraping them off of the concrete.

"War Is Hell"

I want All of My Brothers to get back safely!:cool:

RACooper

05-23-2005 03:55 PM

Something happened today, something that I have felt (and others) was long over due - a memorial to the soliders killed in, in the US... and organized by the US troops they served with.

4 Canadians killed in friendly fire incident honoured in U.S. service
http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/cpress..._fire_memorial

Quote:

CP) - Four Canadians killed by U.S. friendly fire in
Afghanistan were honoured Monday by American soldiers in a service that left family members in tears.

"This is a brotherhood and this is proof," said a shaken Richard Leger, father of Sgt. Marc Leger, who died on April 18, 2002, when an American fighter pilot mistakenly dropped a bomb on Canadians conducting a military exercise.

"It's a family and we're part of that family."

The names of the four, including Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer, Pte. Richard Green and Pte. Nathan Smith, were added to a memorial on the Fort Campbell base in Kentucky, home to Task Force Rakkasan, which served in the U.S.-led coalition against terrorism in Kandahar.

With the strains of a lone bugler mixing with helicopters flying overhead, Col. Michael Steele paid tribute to the Canadians and three American soldiers who died in
Iraq.

"Freedom is not free," he told the crowd, including 180 members of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team of the 187th Infrantry Regiment in fatigues and berets and 14 members of the 3rd Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Battle Group, based in Edmonton.

"Anyone who fights with us is a brother," said Steele. We come here to remember, not so much to grieve for the fallen, but rather to lift them up."

Relatives of the soldiers, who received regimental plaques, grew emotional during the ceremony.

"It's not a political gesture," said Nathan Smith's father, Lloyd. "This is coming from the men on the ground. This is coming from the heart. It's very important for our sons to be recognized by the rank and file."

It was the first time that names of non-U.S. soldiers were added to the Rakkasan memorial honouring Americans who died in conflicts stretching back to the Second World War.

Maj. Harry Schmidt, the Illinois National Guard pilot who dropped the bomb on the Canadians, was found guilty last year of derelection of duty. He was reprimanded, lost a month's pay and won't fly air force jets again.

The Legers framed a copy of the reprimand and hung it over their fireplace.

"There is no such thing as closure for us," said Richard. "Remembrance Day is always going to be there for us."

This is exactly the type of respect and memorial that would have served to lessen the pain and/or bad blood that the "friendly-fire" caused. The only thing better would have been an apology or even acknowledgement of guilt by "Schmidt that fuck'in sack of shit" <spit> (as he is officially termed in all messes... and also by Prince Andrew:cool: )

My only complaint was that it took too long to clear it with "higher-ups".

Tom Earp

05-23-2005 05:27 PM

Brother Cooper, I too am releived for any final decision and closure.

But remember, in any fighting situation, the adrenilen pumps, the fingers are on stand by. The moment to fire is now, not later, later might be to late.:(

"Frienedly Fire" probably happens more than we all know about.

Heros are only in the eyes of The Beholders, not the Men/Women who did it.

Jimmie Doolittle, Greg (Pappy) Boyington, Sgt. York, H S Truman, Audie Murphy to name a few.

As has been Said, WAR IS HELL!

RACooper

04-10-2006 03:08 PM

Ah the issue that never seems to go away - or in this case the ego of Mj. Schmidt that never seems to accept fault... Now he's suing the US Air Force for ruining his reputation and defaming his character :rolleyes:

Quote:

'Friendly fire' pilot sues U.S. air force

The U.S. pilot who dropped a bomb on Canadian soldiers in 2002, killing four of them, is suing his country's air force, saying it ruined his reputation.

National Guard Maj. Harry Schmidt says air force officials erred when they released the letter of reprimand that he was given for the bombing.

The military violated privacy laws when it released confidential personal information. It also violated a settlement agreement that he signed at the time.

"The government flat out failed to comply with their agreement," Schmidt's lawyer, Charles Gittins, told the Associated Press.

He is seeking unspecified damages.

Lt.-Col. Catherine Reardon, a spokesperson for the air force, declined to comment on the lawsuit.

Schmidt and another pilot were flying F-16s in April 2002 when they spotted muzzle flashes near Kandahar airport. Schmidt mistook them for Taliban forces and dropped a laser-guided bomb onto a group of Canadian soldiers who were on a training exercise.

He has said his superiors never told him that Canadian soldiers would be conducting live-fire exercises that night.

Pte. Richard Green and Pte. Nathan Smith - both from Nova Scotia - and Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer and Sgt. Marc Leger were the first Canadians killed in combat since the Korean War. Eight others were wounded.

The second pilot received a letter of reprimand and was allowed to retire from the National Guard. He is not a party to the lawsuit.

Got news for ya buddy, I don't think it was the Air Force that ruined your reputation - I think you did that all by your lonesome...

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