please god tell me you're not a Shawn Desmond fan..... thats even more pathetic than the being an Ottawa fan during the playoffs

Hmmm, last time I checked TO fans, Ottawa and Vancouver are at the top of the league... ;) :p

leaf fans talking shit, yeah that sounds about right...and one living in ottawa, no less - SHAME!

Since you want to take this argument to a higher-level i think it's funny you bring in Senator attendence into the league. Currently they stand 16th in average # of bodies in the stands, which is pretty good considering capacity for the Corel Centre is lower than the average for some teams...But, judging by your hockey-knowledge (after-all you do cheer for a great franchise) i shouldn't have to tell you about the epidemic of poor attendence around the league. And these teams suffering from poor attendence are not exclusive to the sun-belt area...two are original six teams; Boston was at the top of the league for most of the season.

Next month I'm going to a Sens game vs T.B., the ticket-prices now are staggering. If a family of four were to go to a game, sitting in the most-expensive seats, costs would total approximately $800 Can. (parking, food and beverages, etc.). To me, nothing less than the super-bowl or a world cup (Canada cup) match - which i have seen - are worth that price.

I'm willing to make any one of you leaf fans a bet that Ottawa will go further than toronto in the playoffs...how's this sound, the loser can't post until the start of the next season in October?
Any takers - put your money where your mouth is...

If i remember correctly, Montreal was last in it's conference last year to make the playoffs, but still managed to knock Boston out in 6 games. It ain't over till the fat lady starts a singing!

As for the Leafs vs Sens business, First and foremost, i was born in Toronto as a Leafs fan and no matter where i go in life, including Ottawa, i will die a Leafs fan, it's just that simple. Now then talking about the Senators; they got the rough end of the stick, being forced to play in Kanata (a suburb of Ottawa), the stadium should have been built at Lebreton (but that is a story for another day). I have a great deal of respect for Senators (though i rarely like to admit it) In ten years you have built a club that is second to none, it's commendable. I do however believe that a team like Ottawa, who has an average attendance of 16 000+, lwho pay as you say at a phenominal price for tickets, should not require bailouts from the league, either the team is operating beyond it's means or there is some other problem that needs to be dealt with. I don't think any Canadian would like to see another one of our teams die, it's our sport, yet we only represent 6 out of 30 teams, it sucks when the exchange rate is forcing teams like Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Montreal?!? to contemplate packing it in. Alberta came up with a great system to keep the Flames and Oilers alive, they tax the players to play professional hockey in that province (including the players who play for the home teams), they also have a lottery desiginated for the teams, if they instituted that here i would buy a ticket everyweek.

As for the Leafs-Sens bet, i have never not stood behind my team (and boy did i pay when Carolina won). So i will accept your little wager, and may the better Canadian team prevail. O CANADA!

I don't think anyone would take it. You never post sober anyways.

What do you all think of the Buffalo Sabres situation? Do you think they will fold and be moved to Seattle?

It's to bad the sabres got caught up in all the corporate scandle bullshit. i would like to see them stay in Barfalo---but i understand the leagues reasoning on moving them, they did it with Winnipeg and with Quebec City, unprofitable teams need to be relocated in order for the league to survive.

Red Wings beat St. Louis in a 5-1 victory! There's my New Years present! Top of the league, baby! :D

That's nice, but where are they gonna move too?? If you haven't realized yet, the sudden expansion rage hasn't panned out very well. Every year 90% of the teams lose money, should only the profitable ones be allowed to stay? Have you considered that maybe the league needs to take a step back and consider a more level-playing field? Every year there's a handful of teams stuggling to survive, who do we have to thank for this mess?....Gary Bettman? Bob Goodenow? The GM's of the free spending teams? The fans of these teams?

Buffalo might leave, then who's next? Ottawa? Pittsburg? Calgary? Edmonton? Carolina? Phoenix? Montreal? Vancouver?

I geuss it doesn't matter, as long as we have Detroit, Toronto and Colorado comprising a 3 team league, everyone will be happy.

What would you suggest? A salary cap? The NHLPA says no, they won't sign a contract that includes capping salary's. Maybe the Leagues step back should just be to remove profitable teams, like MLB is doing, it might suck but there seems to be few other options. Should teams like Colorado, Toronto and Detroit suffer cause they exist in a hockey market? should they be forced to support teams like Buffalo where the attendance averages only 12 000, when teams like Montreal and Detroit averages over 20 000. If your team can't cut it in the market it is in, then it folds or relocates thats all there is to it. It's ultimatly a business, the NHL isn't in Business to lose money on unprofitable ventures like the Sabres or the Coyotes, sucks eh.

hey jackass, maybe you don't read montreal newspapers but the legendary Canadians are not in very good economic shape. Okay, sooo Buffalo, Pittsburg, MTL, Van, Ott, T.B., Anaheim, Carolina, Edm, Calgary should all leave because they can't cut it...do you think the true fans will support another team after they leave? I don't think so, go ask ppl in Quebec or Winnipeg.

Furthermore, what's gonna happen to the teams in the second tier that compete after all the weaker ones go - San Jose, New Jersey, NYI, LA will all follow suit. They're not in traditional strong hockey markets to be able to compete once player spending hits levels it hasn't even seen. Less fans watching, less revenues, equals less teams, less superstar players from different parts of the world and ultimately the collaspe of the game.

Your right Montreal isn't in very good shape, but it isn't a lack of fans, Montreal has the highest attendance record this season (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2003), the fact that teams are having diffculty is concerning but what are the teams that are in good solid hockey markets supposed to do, give their profit to a team that has never been able to fill the stands? are the players that know theycan have a multi million dollar contract in Toronto supposed to go and play for less in Pheonix or Buffalo, so that the Sabres won't die? Fuck that, if i'm a player i'm going to where the money is, The league can't force salary caps, which would even the field up substantially, cause the players won't go for it, and a strike would kill the teams they are trying to save. The exchange rate which is killing teams in Canada, isn't likely to change anytime soon, and when the Government proposed propping up teams there was massive backlash, if you remember. So what can be done? seriously i'm all ears. Cause i don't have any ideas. I personlly don't think much can be done to save a team in Pheonix, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Miami etc. It hasn't snowed in some of these city's in like a hundred years, why would anybody want to go and watch a sport that is played on ice, a sport they can't play themselves and hardly understand to begin with??

Why does Detroit always get blamed when other teams struggle financially?

The same reason Toronto does. Fans in smaller markets don't like the idea that Detroit and Toronto can afford to pay any amount to secure any player out there. They think basically that Detroit has bought the cup for the last few years, as opposed to building a team. It hasn't work for Toronto obviously. What smaller market fans need to realize is that even during the harold Ballard years when the Leafs were in last place for like 10 years the stands were always full---we built our team by supporting it through it's darkest days, something that isn't happening in Buffalo.

Really, there should only be 16-20 teams to begin with. Than there would be no financial troubles and the level of play would improve greatly.

Anyone hear about Ottawa's troubles? Couldn't pay their players yesterday?