We're all calm. At this point our issue is not with APO or GSS as a whole. Honestly, it never really was about APO and GSS as a whole, it was about RAINMAN. This thread should be renamed "Rainman vs. the NPHC - Why the animosity" He's the one pointing all the fingers talking about how we don't do this and how we're not representing well, sitting in a place of judgement of the NPHC all the while condemning us for the "Big I, Little You" attitude he thinks there is. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited April 25, 2001).]

Kelli, your email is now ready! I hope it helps sum up yours, and others' concerns as well.

As far as Pretty Kitty and company, I will just say this:

Let's go to a commercial break *Match Game theme music plays in the background*

Let me say first, I have no experience with the 25/52 fam. But I do have some comments on this thread.

Maybe some things are superficial to you, but they may not be superficial to others.

It really kind of ticks me off when someone tries to tell me how to feel about my sorority and its symbols. And then to make a comment about someone's self esteem?! There are many things about Ideal08 that are unique to her, and to have someone "copy" it would tick me off (hair styles, clothes, etc.). It's not about my self-esteem, it's about having your OWN style.

Hand signs, calls, colors, those things may not make up our orgs, but they are still a part of the org. And they are just as important (at least to me) as the service that we provide.

Maybe it's superficial to you because these things have no (as Doggystyle put it) historical basis to you. They don't MEAN anything to you. And if it's so superficial, then why do you want to take part in it? Like twirling your blue and gold cane? If you are just doing it to exhibit talent, why not a baton? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Hmph...

Well how about this...I even did the research for you: Do a search on:

APO/GSS relations with NPHC Hmmm July 23, 2000 Greek Life

and you will see what I mean...


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The Epitome of Beauty, Style, and Grace, Always Exemplifying Good Taste, A Zeta Woman, A Finer Woman, That's Me!

[This message has been edited by PrettyKitty (edited April 25, 2001).]

*commercial ends, show fades back in. Rain Man and GCers on Match Game set. Rain Man is center stage buried in baby blue 4 x 6 index cards, one of which written in black Magic Marker: "Another victim of a school riot". Rain Main gets up from the mountain of cards, takes Gene Rayburn's long stemmed microphone and addresses Ideal08*

Ideal, I will be flat out honest with you in your question: Because I like it, I think it possesses finesse, and I think it is nonsense that I should be "prohibited" from following suit because I have not been exposed to a certain ritual, historical meaning or not. Why don't I twirl a baton? Because that is not my preference.

*Rain Man goes to the round indicator located near the contestant podiums and pushes the button which reveal the next round's questions*

Would like like Question A or B?

Dag,

I thought there would be some finality to the awarness of this issue. The phantom issue as some people believe. I really don't think that Rainman hasn't met a NPHC org member that wasn't condesending. Because every one in Alpha Phi Omega or Gamma Sigma Sigma has met and hung with people of every organization. But also, there is a consistent amount of ignorance that seems to perpetuate itself from year to year. And while it may not be on this post in this discussion, it's there all over the net.
This is not a slam on all NPHC orgs. It's individuals that are in these orgs that talk condesendingly about Non-NPHC orgs.

The real question is where do we go after we've realize that there is a issue, and not a phantom one. The answer actually lies in the NPHC organizations themselves. Some campuses have already took steps. I've seen the Alpha's Inviting Gamma Sigma Sigma to one of their step shows. If you are an member of
a NPHC org and you find this disturbing, maybe that phantom is in you.

JayBEE!

RainMan, I just don't understand why it is so important for you to have acceptance and acknowledgment from the NPHC. You know what your organization is all about, so keep it at that. Why do you care so much what we or anyone else thinks about you?! Maybe you don't care, but you really sound like someone who is insecure about the choice you made and your organization (not saying you should be).

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited April 25, 2001).]

RM

You say APO is not a cookie cutter organization, I am not sure tat I would say any organization is. APO, like any other GLO does have formally recognized traditions and symbols, I am sure (and your National Website does a very good job laying htem out.) While you stress this all encompassing commitment to diversity, not in membership but in traditions and practices, it is interesting that your National Website does not reflect that at all.

As to my question that you could not follow- I would clarify but JayBEE did address it to some end. I was wondering how is that you KNEW that all Black or predominantly Black chapters of APO and GSS did not begin to step, call etc. because they were imitating BGLO's? As JayBEE pointed out, there are some APO/GSS chapters who have been ding it for a long time and unless you were there you cannot tell me that it came from some other desire than to do what they saw other GLO's with Black people in them doing any more than I can definitively tell you it came from some such a desire.

There seem to be three issues at pay here:
the stepping thing, the acceptance thing and the animosity you personally seem to display towards BGLO's. (the last one being particularly curious since when this topic was raised last year by you, the tone was not quite as harsh and you indicated a desire to pursue membership in a BGLO.)

You have not clearly addressed the issue of the need for acceptance although it has been posed several times. Again, why the need?

Also, why the need to put so many characteristics of us "social" orgs in your service org (although social is a misnomer to me because Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. is a service sorority.)

You say the root of the issue is unknown to you but the issue raised has to do with stepping, strolling, etc. You call it trivial and bullcrap but that is not petty stuff and worthy of taking up the time of your or our National Officers? PUHLEAZE! Honestly, you would have to come a little better than your kids don't want to play with my kids or they don;t like our toys for me to believe this requiresthe involvemlent of anyone's NAtional HQ. This seems to be a local issue exclusive to those campuses where APO/GSS are sen as trying to represent like other BGLO's. Deal with it where it matters.

As far as members of APO/GSS being questioned by some about who they are and what they do, etc.- it happens. Considering your organization supposedly varies wildly from campus to campus (APO in particular, some all male chapters, other co-ed chapters, some have this symbol, others have that symbol, some focus on service only, others want to have line names and calls) is there any wonder people may not be clear/ familliar with who you are?

As well known as my illustrious Sisterhhod is people ask me all the time what DST is. No matter how they come at me, I always answer them with the patience and tact that a member of DST should display. I think if you already have a chip on your should, it easy to be rubbed the wrong way. Everyone starts to look like a hater after a while.

Like anything in life- if someone hates on yiou- get over it and move on. If they are indiffernt towards you, get over it and move on. You should alwayswork for change for the better but you cannot make someone accept you.

Stop skirting the issue. Before we can say if anything is real, even this problem, we need a working defenition of what is real. What is reality????

OK, Kimmie, now I can address your concerns by paragraph:

P1 - Believe it or not, I agree with you, and that is something I and other brothers have tried to demonstrate to Nationals, but to no avail (Hey, we aren't perfect either!)

P2 - In all fairness, unless we can get confirmation one way or another from those who were there at the time, none of us here can say anything; at this time it is all pure speculation.

P3 - Because to be frank, I don't like my org being treated as a second class org. And I don't like the vibes I get from folx that my pledging was any less important or meaningful than theirs. I put my pants on the same way as everybody else.

P4 - Because I was brought into the fold under that premise. 'Nuff said.

P5 - If you would like a copy of the letter our M&E sent out to the NPHC, email me.

Time for a commercial break *Match Game music plays in the background*

Some Match Game ticket plugs: www.geocities.com/jmadindian2/mgtix81.mp3 www.geocities.com/jmadindian2/mgtix80.mp3

[This message has been edited by Rain Man (edited April 25, 2001).]

Where can I go to see Alpha Phi Omega's that brand, wear gold boots, step, and twirl? Does it happen on non-HBCU campuses. I am not trying to be an ass, I am just asking. The 25/52 family on my campus does nothing like that. They have nothing at all to do with NPHC.

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...I am standing on the shoulders of giants...

I can only speak for my own campus (not a HBCU) and say that it would have been an extremely sorry sight if my APO chapter would have tried to step. We would have been falling on our faces and then some. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I'd like to give 2 snaps up (and a high five) to all the NPHC ladies who contributed to this thread for their EXCELLENT posts.

RM, rather old thought for you to chew on: You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Thanks 33girl for the compliment.

ahhkbah, I have a tape of a Savannah State University (an HBCU) homecoming step show in which the APO chapter stepped in gold boots. If you'd like to see it, let me know & I'll dig it up for you.

Here are some campuses to check out, akhbah:

Floriday A&M University (Kappa Delta)
They just had a pro show that was the BOMB on April 11th.

Fort Valley State University (Phi Zeta)
They had a fantastic step show last month

Tuskeegee University (Pi Zeta)
Lamar University (Kappa Alpha)
Prairie View A&M University (Sigma Pi)
Texas Southern University (Tau Zeta)
Austin Peay State University (Upsilon Alpha)
Tennessee State University (Psi Phi)
Dillard University (Chi Upsilon)
Grambling State University (Chi Nu)

These are just to name a few

Hope this helps

Rain Man