RUgreek
Senior Member posted August 12, 2000 12:56 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by satin:
If people KNOW that hazing is wrong, why is it still being done? ...Give some insight!!!
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Does S&M mean anything to you? Just kidding, why do people haze..hmm a very difficult sociological question. I think there are many reasons from "it's fun" to "we had it done to us, so you're gonna get it too" arguments. Hazing is supposed to show discipline and devotion to the higher authorities, in my opinion. I don't think it's right, and I certainly do not condone it, but this is the impression I get whenever people discuss the subject. Hazing has been around a long time now, maybe not as abusive and ridiculous, but it has a long history. When a person gets hazed and accepts the consequences or whatever that goes along with it, the Hazors (if I can make up such a term) believe that this person will honor and sacrifice for them. I believe it could be a positive tool, if not abused and turned into a meaningless torture device. To test a person's loyalty to an organization is a common trait everyone looks for in a member. Hazing is being done for the wrong reasons, but I think that it could be a respectable learning instrument.

Now, Why do people do the wrong hazing? Because they are pathetic assholes who can't seem to figure out that inflicting pain and harm on another is the most dangerous and stupid thing you could possibly do to someone. If hazing has no alternative purpose except to create unhappiness, it has no merits and is completely usless. I hope some of this makes sense, if not, please comment.

RUgreek

There is too much right here on the hazing part of the discussion board to worry about finding evidence of why it occurs. This is only one comment-one of the milder ones, actually. Besides, books have been written about it, much less postings on some chat board. It's been researched to death by sociologiest, journalists, therapists who treat victims, etc. They even have specialists and whole organizations-who do nothing but research secret societies-including sororities and fraternities, to find out what they are doing and why, so your little comments are wasted here.

I do see a trend though, as we go into the 21's century-the general public due to mass communication, is being made more aware of the dangers of secret societies and how people can get sucked into them, innocently and have their lives ruined. The secrecy will more than likely go, due to pressure from the media-who seem to be on your tale more and more. You admit here all the time that everything that is aired is anti Greek. Why is that so? You tell me, I'd like to hear your take on that. And, we all know the part about sensationalism sells-so what is so sensational about what is happening in your "secret societies" that they keep gravitating to?

The whole thread out to be renamed-it used to be about rape. Or are we on the same subject-just not admitting it.

Does this person sound familiar to y'all? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

I'm sorry, carnation, but in reading back through your posts, you are the most foul person posting that could ever exist-and you think you are helpful? Well, then, maybe you are!

I usually refrain from even responding to the negative comments/posts people make about the Greek community, but I'm fed up. Yes, I'm Greek. No, I was NEVER hazed. In fact, I was treated wonderfully while I was a new member, and still am treated well by all the ladies I meet as an alum.

Comparing the Greek system to cults, stating that "secret societies ruin lives" is ludicrous. If you allow your life to be ruined by an organization, you are the fool. Anyone that blames an entire organization for the actions of one or two individuals is a fool.

These days, it seems like no one wants to take responsibility for their OWN choices, but rather to blame the results on the others around them. YOU choose whether or not to join an organization. YOU choose whether or not to participate in the rituals and activities that are involved with that organization, just as YOUchoose every other event in your life. If these activities are degrading or go against your moral structure, you have the choice NOT to participate.

Gracie_freebush: You question "what goes on in secret societies" that brings them into the spotlight? I'll answer that. Things go on that you don't know about; therefore, you(you referring to the global, general non-Greek population) make incorrect assumptions because you are curious. Ignorant people have a tendency to believe that anything they do not know about is negative. Hence the popularity of superstition.

And the prescence of anti-Greek sentiment in the media? Let's look at a top headline in recent history; the Jon-Benet Ramsey case. Do you really believe that a little girl that was killed in a trailer park who's parents were blue collar workers would have been publicized as much? The answer: no. This child was of an extremely wealthy family. Those in positions of wealth or power are simply more interesting to sensationalize.

Ignorant people believe everything they read and see, not understanding that it is one media group competing with another for ratings that is producing that media. Competition isn't a formula for honesty, truth, and in-depth reporting. Statistics can be manipulated to support ANY theory, including those that indicate that Greek life is full of hazers.

If you believe that individuals are "sucked into" secret societies, do you believe that people simply have no free will? Let's be realistic, please. People make their own choices.

Finest Alum,

Kudos to you! That was extremely well said! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Gracie FB/Barb/Cutie Pootie/ big drip or whatever your name is today:

Here's the deal. We were tired of you 6 months ago. We don't want to talk about rape. We don't want to talk about your kid or hazing or 4-foot drops into coffins. You have no right to talk about foul, or shall some of us re-post some of your posts and e-mails! Does the name Ooh Teeny Wahine ring a bell?

John has kicked your sorry fat butt out of here numerous times. Hank Nuwer kicked you out of StopHazing and I know there were others. Many of your e-mails are on file with the Harris County PD and the FBI.

We don't care what you have to say! You are UNWANTED! Go find a message board who WANTS to listen to you. This is our party and you are UNWELCOME.

Secrets, secrets everywhere....woooooooo!!! Was pretty Allison going to a secret sorority meeting when she heard:

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Are these the kind of words you fear and tremble from? I can see you on your perch parroting to anybody who would listen:

"Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

Get a life!

Da##it, Carnation, are you trying to steal my glory? Its not been that long since I held that title! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

And now the next episode in....

The Bung and The Useless:

When we last left our Super*heinees*, there was quite the *heated* discussion of brainwashing and body odor.....

[cheesy soap opera music playing]

heeeheeeeheeee [ie, evil mad*woman* laugh] - "my personalities have been replicated to cancerous proportions -- they'll never figure it out that all 947 members are me!"

["ding dong" sounds in the background]...

GracieFB/B/VD/Sanford/Taiwan/name of the day inserted here ____ "Da##it - who is calling my name now?"

Daughter of the above: "Uh, mom, that's the doorbell"

"Oh - always get that part confused" [as she opens the door she is shocked to see a man in uniform with a badge bouncing what looks like a flat ball......upon closer inspection she is horrified to see it is one of her bad CHECKS that he is bouncing]

"Yes Yes - what is it officer? What do you want?"

Officer: "Mam I am here to return your checks, and to ask you if you are involved with any harassment of the regulars on GC?"

"Me...uhhh...no...no...why....uhhh...YOU CAN'T PROVE A THING! And since you're here, I want to report a Vi-O-lation of my rights! I have been vi-O-lated I say! Them people are all Chi O's in disguise, and they are plottin' on me! Playing a game called "Keep the coffin away" and I am not liking it not one bit, no-siree-Bob!"

Officer: "Uh, 'mam, my name is Fred..."

"What? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME? Did you say dead owl? Are you one of them? You are - I knew it - you are! You just stay put right here and I'm gonna go git my boys."

Officer: "Uh, 'mam, your boys are in the pen, remember?"

"Uh...well that's just fine and dandy Mister Big Shot - I know that game you're playing and I will figure it out just you wait and see! I will take it to the Supreme Pizza if I have too!"

[Officer just leaves the check bouncing along on the front porch and returns to his car]

[Mad as a wet hound dawg, she returns to her computer which has the longest recorded on-line time in history]

"Okay - I'm gonna git you all - mark my words - this is the last I'm gonna take...I'm gonna just log on here and create another new name for misself and you will see who has the last laugh...hardy har har....and then Imma gonna waste some more time and find all your emails and put your emails on a list from here to eternity......."

[Narrator -- will the madness continue? Are the regular good folks of GC subject to the insanity forever? Is there any website left that she hasn't been kicked off of? And finally -- will AXO Alum be returned to the status of "the most foul person posting that could ever exist"...tune in next time!]

Ahhhh! GracieFreeBush....Bandersnatch! Now that should be your next nickname.



[This message has been edited by cutehootie (edited April 05, 2001).]

Do not take my words and twist them to your own meaning. That is classless and shows and lack of breeding and education!

Hazing is bad. Rape is bad. Hazing and rape are not the same thing. I wrote this post ONLY to say that rape is something that can be overcome. If you think that being a strong woman is not going to change the rape culture.... I fail to understand your logic. You seem to imply that my forgiveness is making me suffer. My dear, I suffer nothing! You didn't read my post correctly. I am perfectly happy in every aspect of my being. It is my forgiveness that has allowed me to become so happy. If I were to brood over it I would become mad!

Let me reassert something. Nothing about our ritual is hurtful. Nothing. Plain and simple. Our ritual is beautiful and moving. Initiation is one of the happiest moments of my life! I think that this girl's soul was already hurt, from what I do not know. Just as when you hug a bruised person unintentionally making the pain worse, Chi Omega tried to hug this girl...

I am sacrificed to nothing. I will never be sacrificed to anything and I will never accept any idea that implies such! I take the responsibility for my own actions. I made a mistake that night, and I take responsibility for it. However, it was a mistake of ignorance, not of rage or hate or lust. You, my dear, seem prone to making mistakes of hate. My rapists made mistakes of lust and hate.

Why do you hate so much?? Hate is not a natural emotion - it is an emotion of stress and confusion. You need help. I tried to imply this earlier, but you seem unable to get the point. Get therapy!

God does not want you to hate. He doesn't want you to hurt other people. He does not want you to destroy that which makes thousands of people happy. You can kill the disease of hazing without killing the the entire Greek system.

Do you have any secrets? You personally? Do you have anything that you don't want others or simply certain people to know? Of course. I guess that means that you are evil and wicked. I guess that means that your secrets are evil and wicked too.

If you feel the need to take this pointless argument up again, please email me. Don't bother these nice people with it!

People.

It is time to move on.
Gracie Chi O started this thread by exhibiting strength and (no pun intended) grace in the face of what happened to her.

Fraternity/Sosority secrets are not designed to HURT anyone, they are designed to make the members of each organization feel a bond to that organization -- a WARM FUZZY bond, not a painful, threatening one. I don't understand why anyone would care what someone else's rituals were. It will only make sense, and mean something, to the members of that organization who know the principles and history and intents of the founders.

If everyone would just worry about their own lives and making their own lives work and spend a little less time defaming people who have made decisions they do not agree with-- well, the world, as well as greek chat, would be a nicer place indeed.

There is no need for the types of hostility we've seen on this board. There is no need to take, for instance, carnation's, words out of context and twist them to mean something entirely different. Carnation was expressing her beliefs, JUST as GracieFB was. But Gracie, this is a board for the Greek Community, so if you are going to come on and defame members of GLOs, you MUST expect some dissention and flaming. We all feel passionately about our organizations and about all members of GLOs and will support them and their viewpoints--that is called a community--and greek chat is definitely a community of mostly like minded individuals fighting to overcome the negative sterotypes of Greeks that is perpetrated on the masses by a few people who've had unfortuanate experiences. NOT all Greeks are BAD. We do not support our sisters and brothers who haze, and there is no need for everyone to assume just because we are Greek we must all belong to a cult and are unable to stand up for ourselves. It is the strength we have in the friendships made within our GLOs that have given us the strength to fight for what we believe in.

[/getting off soapbox]

Gracie - do not let "psycho" get you down or upset you today - it is a day you should be celebrating 107 years of a strong and beautiful sisterhood - AND looking forward to another 107 years, regardless of anyone who tries to bring you down!

You guys, I didn't realize GracieFB was that same woman; I wouldn't have justified the post with a response (but thanks to you DZRose http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ))

Okay people...in another thread I asked what was going on with somebody named Billymack(?) I think, b/c my sisters and I are starting to use this web site. I find it funny, humorous but above all helpful and that many of the people on the site are all these things. But in my email box and that of my sorority this morning, we found a link to a NASTY site. One that spends most of its space as a bible thumpin site more than anything. Can someone email me and tell me what the hell I somehow got into? I am trying not to be mean about anything, I know that not ALL Greek experiences are as great as mine has been, but I have never *assulted* anyone through email! What do I do, besides just ignore the email? Because that is a really, really hard thing to do....

------------------
Sarah Lyon
Sister Lots-a-Heart, #9
President, Iota Beta Chi Sorority
http://welcome.to/iotabetachi

Sarah,
DO NOT under any circumstances reply to the email or Barb and her people will start harassing you further.

I know some people have forwarded their emails to the Houston Police Dept., I will let them post and tell you what they did. I've thus far been lucky and not heard from the infamous V's or anyone posing as them.