I MUST NOW LET YOU DIE.

/snark

Ha...I'll take my chances. I bet there's a better chance I'll die in a car crash than in a gun battle anyway. :rolleyes:

Actually, that may increase their likelihood of surviving the unlikely event.

******************

I find these discussions really interesting because it also boils down to who should have the right to carry guns to defend themselves. And I am not talking about law abiding citizens vs. motivated offenders. If this topic was simply about having guns to defend yourself in case something happens, the discussion would also consider gun carrying for people whose routine activities place them at higher risk of victimization--people who live in unsafe neighborhoods or attend colleges/universities in relatively unsafe environments. But, no, people in such environments are often encouraged to not access guns (remember the gun buyback programs of years past?) even when they are law abiding citizens. Being pro-guns conveniently tends not to support gun carrying for a subpopulation that has been deemed undesirable (lower socioeconomic status, racial and ethnic minorities, et al.). This topic is really not about gun carrying as a whole. It's about the gun carrying of a certain segment of the population that feels it is being targeted by unsavory characters whether they be mentally unstable or otherwise criminogenic.

Afterall, only this "certain segment" of the population is truly undeserving of such victimization. Everyone else gets what they "deserve" for being in such unsavory environments. I recall how shootings in schools did not raise a concern until these shootings impacted a certain segment of the population. Only then did people start wondering what the hell is going on; and wonder whether greater gun access for law abiding citizens could be part of a solution.

Then let DGTess shoot your car windows and pull you out of the wreckage. Put the gun to good use. :)

That's using your noggin!

By the same token, it only takes one unclear-headed person to make things worse. My bet is that the latter is more likely than the former.

Well, that's one way to dismiss inconvenient arguments without actually addressing them. :rolleyes:

You believe in your position. Fine. But you've given me no reason to change my mind about my positione.

Meh, I'd like to see what kind of actual interest students have for this law, Just cause you allow people to carry doesn't mean they will. I hold a permit and carry....practically never. Well unless I know I'm going to be in questionable parts of town or in a potentially dangerous situation.

Also for the folks talkig about vigilantism, most if not all people carry for their own personal protection, not to fight crime.

Fair point, but not the one that was presented here.

Which is a reasonable argument, but like Drolefille said, the reason for this law that has been lauded here is that CHL on college campuses would save other people's lives. I don't buy it. Glad to hear from another CHL person who has another opinion on the matter. Thanks.

Part of this is anecdotal, I'm making that clear.

This story in two parts was written after the fact, if you want some background on what i'm talking about.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/mas...ent?oid=937285

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/mas...ent?oid=937347

Story about the student with his handgun, and another civilian who was taken into custody while trying to help.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools....asp?ID=193777

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/200...rying-to-help/


Almost four years ago a man shot up my neighborhood, killing two civilians and one officer, and wounded one officer and one civilian. The wounded civilian left his home with his hand gun and was shot by the shooter. The person who then risked his life pulling him to safety was someone I knew through a friend. I was just about to move into my current home, same neighborhood, and had to leave town for a few days because I was across the street from the courthouse when it happened. We had firearms and chose not to go outside and get involved because we didn't know what was happening, and we could have easily been shot by the police or the shooter.

I have firearms training for field work and for pleasure (got school credit for a P.E. class, hand guns and rifles, and my girl scout badges), and if allowed to carry on campus I wouldn't. The place is too large, there are too many people, and there is little to no way I'd be able to get good information if the actual shooter (not other civilians with firearms) was who I had in my sights. I've attended our campus trainings for emergencies like this and thankfully my personal plan was congruent with emergency services. Shootings are rare on college campuses, and we can what if about what we would have done with hand guns, but unless the perp was within a few feet of me I would prefer a rifle over a hand gun.

From what I've learned in courses, specifically about the development of the frontal lobe and the onset/diagnosis of mental illness, and substance abuse; college students with concealed weapons makes me uneasy. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124119468 New research has shown that the frontal lobe is often not fully developed and connected until the mid twenties, and the use of alcohol and drugs doesn't help with decision making either. http://www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/...ract/145/8/971 yes this can happen off college campuses, but the majority of students in college, traditional students, are aged 18-23. I admit that college students may have higher diagnoses due to being in college, professors & others who report behavior, access to health centers, being on parent insurance or school insurance, and many schools requiring people with reports or incidents to receive treatment to live on campus or stay enrolled. Even with access to treatment how many kids get of fthe hook or aren't reported because they are "just being kids" or "made a mistake" and it slips through the cracks? This isn't a fail safe situation, but as a population I don't think having concealed handguns is the best answer or solution. Sure we have many responsible young adults, but many aren't and let's be honest here, we went to college, we know what it is like and how people act.


I wish I could carry a tazer though.

Oh and there's this guy:
http://www.uiargonaut.com/sections/n...ent_suing.html

If I wanted to live my life how I wanted, I sure as hell wouldn't live on campus, let alone in married student housing, sign the contract, then complain about the rules. There is an abundance of off campus housing that is far better and much cheaper, srsly, move off campus and have all the guns, pets, alcohol, and BBQs everyone else enjoys.