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Quote:

There are a LOT of GLOs or groups with the same characteristics of traditional Greek groups. The latter outnumber the former.

Well now. I have learned the job of moderator doesn't have the pre-requisite of GLO maturity.

Sorry you just happen to be in my firing line from an incident that happened here last week and I'm trying to understand the method to the madness.

EE-BO, do you mind explaining what you meant by that statement?

Was it along the lines of "go Greek" being synonymous with "go NPC/NIC" to you?

Are NPHCs, MCGLOs, LGLOs, AGLOs, and local GLOs not "going Greek" because they are not what you consider "traditional GLOs?"

Is "traditional GLO" based on founding year or average chapter size at the Texas school in question?

I know NPHCers often talk about Greekdom in relation to our experiences but those of us who have experiences beyond BGLOs do not pretend as though "go Greek" (in general) means "go BGLO."

Quote:

Originally Posted by EE-BO (Post 1996868)

There are a LOT of GLOs or groups with the same characteristics of traditional Greek groups. The latter outnumber the former.

Since he was talking about Texas, he probably meant that as a reference to the student spirit groups with characteristics similar to the NPC/NIC groups.

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Originally Posted by annabella (Post 1997005)

Since he was talking about Texas, he probably meant that as a reference to the student spirit groups with characteristics similar to the NPC/NIC groups.

Spirit groups =/= GLOs

Also, I don't believe that the spirit groups outnumber the NIC/NPC organizations.

ETA: I just went back and reread the sentence and it looks like you're right. It looks like he meant "There are a lot of 1) GLOs and 2) groups that have similar characteristics," but I read it as "GLOs with similar characteristics."

My apologies, EE-BO

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1996996)

I believe he was referring to NIC GLOs because that's what the OP was asking about. The thing at Texas is that there are a lot of organizations here that are very Greek-like in nature that are not Greek at all (although many Greeks are members of them too.) It's not necessary to go Greek (and by that I mean any council or independent groups, not just NPC/NIC) to get a "Greek like" experience. Texas is a little unique in this respect. It's hard to explain if you haven't been there to experience it.

As far as "traditional GLO" (and I am just speaking about the NIC fraternities here) being based on chapter size or age, at Texas there a very wide range in both age and chapter size. Generally, the older chapters are larger and more highly regarded ("top tier") and are also the most legacy and connections driven. Honestly, there are so many NIC fraternities at UT (maybe around 25?) and some of them are so small/uninvolved that I didn't even know they existed. So there are lots of opportunities for guys other than the omg-must-be-fratty-top-tier-NIC-groups, because that isn't an option that's even a possibility for many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EE-BO (Post 1996868)

Hi DrPhil- I mean society in general among those who have the money to send their children to UT and pay the bills for their children to be in a "top tier" fraternity.

Miriverite is quite correct that Austin is about as close as you get here to full integration- all the way down to high end neighborhoods having a more diverse mix of residents than one might experience elsewhere. Houston and Dallas are nowhere near that phase of enlightenment.

However, compared to the rest of the South, Texas is fairly open. It may make Texas more progressive, but I would be hard pressed to argue we have achieved an ideal state of existence.

I attribute it to a strong respect for entrepreneurship. If you make a success of yourself financially here- then assuming you are not a wholly disagreeable person, you will find your background far less of an obstacle to overcome when tackling those things in life that confer "respectability"- and this includes your children going Greek at UT.

There is a lot of money in Texas. In fact, it was not until I started my career with 2 years of travel around the US in public accounting that I fully realized just how much wealth there is here compared to other states. Even in small towns you will find families possessing staggering amounts of money with staggering frequency.

The real money here in Texas comes from oil- and the oil families here did not migrate with fortunes. They were poor farmers and wildcatters who worked hard and got lucky. Even today with all the natural gas finds in Teague- there are farmers once below the poverty line who are suddenly millionaires.

I think this is why here race takes second place to financial success when it comes to how people are judged- although it still only confers status on a very select few.

To the OP- what I have said above should paint the picture for you.

Here is the deal with Texas. It is an enormous school. There are a LOT of GLOs or groups with the same characteristics of traditional Greek groups. The latter outnumber the former.

If you are an eager and well-presented individual, you will find a group there that you can be proud to be a part of and that will give you an opportunity to contribute and be better prepared for the real world in the process.

However, if you set your sights on "top tier" chapters only- you might be setting your goal a bit wrong. I am especially concerned because- as I and others have noted- you have not exactly posted a roster of "top tier" chapters in your inquiries.

Let me pose a question to you- and to be fair this question could be posed to a lot of people, not just you. I am not singling you out since the questions you are asking are things many potential rushees think about but don't ever vocalize.

What do you want out of your fraternity membership?

Seriously. What do you want it to do for you? From your posts so far, you give the impression- rightly or wrongly- that you want to join a top tier chapter in the hopes it will confer a certain status on you.

This is not how it works. The demand is such that going into 10th grade, most future successful rushees for the most in-demand fraternities already have a very clear idea of the social pecking order at UT. And by the time of graduation, most have already made several visits and either know where they will end up, or at least are assured they will have a bid at one of those houses.

At other schools this is not necessarily the case, but here it is. And demand is such that the "top tier" chapters can be very selective and expect of their membership quite a financial obligation.

Let me give you an idea how that works because Texas is the MOST expensive school in the country to go Greek.

Dues- plan on anywhere from $4,000-6,000 per year just for the basic dues if you live in the house. OU weekend- plan on dropping $1,000 for doing your part to get there, have fun, and pay your date's way too. Plan on buying a very good tuxedo for all the formals, and having it cleaned or replaced frequently. Be prepared as well for all sorts of other miscellaneous expenses incidental to that life.

Good finger in the wind test- if you want to be in a "top tier" chapter at UT, plan on having $10,000 a year to spend on every single thing that you will need that you would not need otherwise. If you want to do all the side trips and such- double that figure. And plan on that coming from your parents. There are rare cases where guys work to put themselves through school and try to go Greek too- but it seldom works out. Fair? Maybe not. But it is reality.

The "lesser" chapters that have large houses and good parties are not that much cheaper. You are still looking at $5K+ to achieve the above.

My suggestion to you is to consider what you want from Greek Life at UT, and then also the cost. This will at least tell you what you could possibly manage and want to do.

Noone is going to discuss specific chapter reputations on this site. That you need to find out on your own- in no small part because your perception of reputation will determine that answer for you.

This is great. And I had NO idea that dues were that expensive at Texas- does the same go for their sororities?

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1997007)

ETA: I just went back and reread the sentence and it looks like you're right. It looks like he meant "The are a lot of 1) GLOs and 2) groups that have similar characteristics," but I read it as "GLOs with similar characteristics."

You obviously aren't the only one who read it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EE-BO (Post 1996868)

I attribute it to a strong respect for entrepreneurship. If you make a success of yourself financially here- then assuming you are not a wholly disagreeable person, you will find your background far less of an obstacle to overcome when tackling those things in life that confer "respectability"- and this includes your children going Greek at UT.

There is a lot of money in Texas. In fact, it was not until I started my career with 2 years of travel around the US in public accounting that I fully realized just how much wealth there is here compared to other states. Even in small towns you will find families possessing staggering amounts of money with staggering frequency.

The real money here in Texas comes from oil- and the oil families here did not migrate with fortunes. They were poor farmers and wildcatters who worked hard and got lucky. Even today with all the natural gas finds in Teague- there are farmers once below the poverty line who are suddenly millionaires.

I, for one, scoff at new money. Bless your heart.

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Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1997050)

You obviously aren't the only one who read it that way.

Yes, because of an unfamiliarity with University of Texas culture.

No, because of an awkwardly worded sentence (that followed a post about people thinking that "going Greek" was for rich white kids).

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1997007)

Spirit groups =/= GLOs

Also, I don't believe that the spirit groups outnumber the NIC/NPC organizations.

ETA: I just went back and reread the sentence and it looks like you're right. It looks like he meant "The are a lot of 1) GLOs and 2) groups that have similar characteristics," but I read it as "GLOs with similar characteristics."

My apologies, EE-BO

No worries- I am the one who should apologize. It was a poorly worded sentence (I was writing on the fly- travel day for work), and I was being hasty in my reply.

However beyond that, I should clarify an unintended insult that I did note when reading that sentence and referencing "traditional" GLOs with regard to NIC organizations.

What I intended to convey was the sense of Greek Life at Texas now versus when I was an active member. I did not mean to disparage NPHC or other organizations that have been at Texas for a very long time or that also have a storied and reputable existence. The OP was asking about "top tier" which means a handful of NIC groups- and I was going from that mindset.

I intended to convey that while Texas was already very well stocked with GLOs and other groups that mimic GLOs on a local level back when I was in school, there are even more of them today- and many of the newer (and older) ones have a more prominent presence on campus and even organized housing.

In any event, I am sorry for any inaccuracies in my remarks. When I am suggesting someone "widen the net" and be open-minded about all groups at Texas, I don't do much service to that announcement by making careless generalizations about NIC versus everyone else.

Back to the OP- something I should have mentioned last night in my post is that job networking in "top tier" fraternities is not all it is cracked up to be. Yes, there are many instances where fraternity brothers in such chapters- or any chapters for that matter- go into business together or help each other get a first job or internship with their family's firm.

But this is more about these guys who help each other out having a shared background/network that existed long before college. Their being fraternity brothers is a symptom of being part of that circle- not the root cause.

If I may ask- what are your plans at UT? Which school are you currently attending or planning to attend? If you are going to be majoring in engineering or business for example- you will find a wealth of networking opportunities right there, the right ones. In both business and engineering- there are regular social events for students, and even organizations with Greek Letter names that provide social membership with an emphasis on networking for the benefit of your career. At one point, Beta Kappa- a coed business fraternity- was even renting a very large house on campus that used to be Theta Xi and is now Acacia (next door to ADPi.)

In terms of the real world- I have never hired anyone because they were also a Beta, or also a UT grad for that matter. Their resume may get to my desk a lot faster with that connection, but it guarantees nothing. I care more about what a person has done since college- or academically during college if a recent graduate. Hiring purely on the basis of how a person strikes me during the interview and their resume has served me very well. Any hiring manager who is any good will tell you that having a completely open mind in your hiring approach is the only way to consistently bring in good people. And part of being open-minded is not caring about whether a person went to your school or was part of the "right" fraternity.

You will find this to be the case with 99% of employment opportunities out there.

If you want to join a social organization for the fun and good times- go through rush. I think you have received good advice here about "top tier" chapters at Texas since you do not appear to have current ties with members or even know which organizations are in that top tier (and no- noone will disclose them here, not even me), but they represent a very small fraction of what Greek Life has to offer at Texas- in addition to the many non-GLOs that mimic Greek Life, of which there is an unusual concentration at UT.

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Originally Posted by Elephant Walk (Post 1997120)

Yes, because of an unfamiliarity with University of Texas culture.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1997144)

No, because of an awkwardly worded sentence (that followed a post about people thinking that "going Greek" was for rich white kids).

Thanks, DrPhil

EW -- how the hell do you end up being an expert on every southern campus? Like, all of them?

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Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1997207)

:rolleyes:

Thanks, DrPhil

EW -- how the hell do you end up being an expert on every southern campus? Like, all of them?

Shanes.

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Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1997207)

EW -- how the hell do you end up being an expert on every southern campus? Like, all of them?

I'm not sure knowing basic features of campus society constitutes expertise.

And I have at least two or three friends at most flagship schools in the south that I go visit often..even post-grad as I am now.

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Originally Posted by Elephant Walk (Post 1997253)

I'm not sure knowing basic features of campus society constitutes expertise.

And I have at least two or three friends at most flagship schools in the south that I go visit often..even post-grad as I am now.

You seem to jump into every conversation "Southern" related and speak definitively on it. I have friends and associates all over the country as well. I would never claim to be the most informed person about, say, Towson University just because I know people there.

But FYI -- misinterpreting EE-BO's post does not happen because of a lack of familiarity with UT. I've been in TX for 12 years, 4.5 of them in the Austin area. It was a poorly worded sentence.