Feed their families? Most newly released felons don't have families, they have child support payments.

Absolutely, he came highly recommended. He did all my parents' garage door work when they built their McManshion.

That depends on the job. Would you hire a guy with a felony DUI charge to deliver pizza for you? Would you hire someone with a drug conviction to be a cashier? Probably not, and the first could get you sued.

Okay then, what Constitutional right are you suggesting keeps felons from experiencing what they're experiencing right now? That paragraph is almost as silly as something I'd expect from a 10ther.

When there are limited resources and sticking 'em back in the pokey is more cost effective and protects society from them, that's just fine. Not everyone is able to be rehabilitated.

I'm all for second-chance programs like drug courts, but in most cases, once they have that felony conviction, they've earned it.

Cool.. well, since we're so bad at predicting, we should just let convicted child molesters run daycare centers, right? It wouldn't be fair to them if we said that they had a far better than average chance of recidivism. I mean, after all, they have served their debts to society and we can't accurately predict whether they'll reoffend.

Citation needed.

You made the comparison, not I. I agree, it was absurd. Thinking one does no harm in speeding is not the same as thinking one does no harm in committing a felony. And a murderer could be out in less than 10 or not even serve time depending what kind of homicide crime he's convicted of.

Yeah, actually, I was recently a victim of several petty felonies like that. One of our movers stole my checkbook and decided to write himself a few paychecks. Guy was dumb as dirt--signed his real name, legibly to the signature line. I'm a cooperating state's witness now. I wasn't damaged in the least because my bank took care of everything, but I'm going to do what I can to make sure this idiot does time and never gets a job again where the employer places him in a position of trust.

Had he had this felony record before the moving company hired him, I would have a viable cause of action for negligent hiring. Or at least my bank would since I'm not really damaged.

Yes I am.

But why would any of those employers employee felons when there were equally qualified non-felons out there?

I hate McMansions. That is all.

This is why I say citation needed. I haven't met all the guys in our program, but many of them have families. And even if they "only" have child support payments, are those children supposed to suffer too?

But he's a felon. So not all felons are created equal, huh?



But the only reason you wouldn't hire them for the latter is because you're afraid, so the negligent hiring issue is rather an aside here.

Voting. And I don't know what a "10ther" is so feel free to keep misconstruing my point.



It's not necessarily more cost effective. It's easy. Prisons are full and they're expensive. That's pretty much the case everywhere. Illinois doesn't have the funding to open a new prison or hire new employees.

Agreed, they earned it. So your options are brand them with it for the rest of their lives or do something to get them back. Subclasses of people are bad.



And you were dissing my argument? I really hope you don't argue like this in court. I'm sure it wins cases but it screws your integrity to shit.



Citation provided: Click
Click
Shift in the Juvenile Court System from Rehabilitation to Punishment

Rehab vs. punishment/deterrence is a huge debate. I don't have the citations from work, so these will have to do. I recommend looking at the work of Dr. Latessa.


I said felons, you said rapists and murderers. Stop pulling the bullshit of "you said it not me" and have a mature discussion without resorting to hyperbole. I make an effort to do so, I'd appreciate you doing the same. Also, you said murderer, not someone convicted of manslaughter or negligent homicide.

I said repeatedly that they are the same thinking processes and they are. How is thinking it's ok to speed not the same as thinking it's ok to do drugs for example? Both are nominally "victimless" unless something unplanned happens.



And that's why we tell our guys that writing in to explain their conviction in person rather than just writing it down makes a difference. That guy could earn trust back, slowly, one day after doing his time. Your option is to ensure he doesn't ever have trust again. I know which system I'd prefer to be under, but I'm aware that you have not, in the past, been able to conceive of being in a similar situation as someone less fortunate than you whether chronically unemployed or convicted of a crime, even wrongfully so. However, negligent hiring is an aside for this discussion as it would, for the most part, not apply.

At least you acknowledge that what you're saying is bullshit then.


Why not? I know they do, and that our guys can get jobs. Some probably make a point to give guys second chances. Others pay cash. Others find that not a lot of people want to do roof work in 110 degree heat indicies.

Abortion is not birth control. Birth control is to prevent pregnancy from ever occurring. Abortion is the termination of an already occurred pregnancy.

Birth control prevents birth. While most birth control prevents conception or implantation, it is true that abortion - chemical or surgical does terminate the pregnancy.

The point is, people only get abortions to prevent birth. Not for shits and giggles and because they had a spare afternoon after getting their nails done. Either women have the right to control their bodies or they don't. You can't say that X number of abortions is acceptable but X+1 isn't.

No matter how many (I suspect mythical) women there are having abortions once a month because they can't bother with prophylactic measures.

IMO the women who don't take any responsibility for their bodies and contraception ARE having abortions for shits and giggles. I hope they are mythical, but I'm quite afraid they're not.

So do I! Most of them are so ugly and have no character what so ever. I'd take a 80-90 year old craftsmen style house over a McMansion any day of the week.

They aren't mythical but they aren't as prevalent as people claim. This is particularly the case when people talk about poor people and racial and ethnic minorities.

Isn't having an abortion taking responsibility? Have you ever met anyone who had one for fun?

It's kind of like the mythical welfare "queens" popping out 12 babies to by a Cadillac. Or all those women who get pregnant to trap a man. There are people who are not as responsible as you would like them to be, or even with a warped view of the world, but most of these images are urban legends with very few instances of actual truth mixed in.

And if someone believes that an abortion is not killing a baby, the only limitations on having them would be financial cost and their own body's health and safety. There's no moral problem with having them every month, it's just impractical and unhealthy. (And probably impossible.)

Some are stunningly beautiful but a waste of design and size because they are 4 feet from the next house and too close to the street. What's the point of stuffing mansions in neighborhoods designed for smaller houses? What's the point of buying a mansion when you don't have a large front and back lawn to match the house? Spend your money on property where you can landscape and have a big lawn to mow. It's bad enough that newer houses tend not to have attics and/or basements.

I also prefer older styled houses and "plantation columns. I won't go on that rant. :)

Very much agree.

Though I fear I will never live in either. My parents have a 50's style ranch and I'll be living in apartments til kingdom come. :(

You have to build close if you live in any sort of a city these days, could you imagine the property taxes you'd pay on an acre lot in Houston or dallas proper? If I was to build new I'd build uber-modern, off the grid, fabulousness....

http://www.trendir.com/house-design/...exas.html#more

That depends on how much you can afford and what parts of the city you want to live in. ;)

Like I said, I hope these ARE mythical. But some people just have a "it won't happen to me" outlook on life and act with very little concern for themselves or others.

We're never going to agree on this so I'll just chime in and say I hate McMansions also.

LOL it's ok. I just think it's hypocritical to judge some people for having a medical procedure and not others. (As if you think it's murder, or at least morally fraught, then you would judge all)

I have no opinion on McMansions but I hate new housing developments because they don't have enough trees.