We have military in many, many countries. That's different than spending the $10B a month that Bush was spending on the war in Iraq.

So what you're really saying is that you aren't going to vote for anybody because even if they do what they say were going to do, you won't believe them anyway? So this isn't just about Obama?

[QUOTE=AGDee;1927958]American combat troops are due to pull out of Iraq by September, ahead of a complete military withdrawal at the end of 2011, and the seating of a new government in Baghdad is key to Washington's exit strategy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...oJ7Pz3Y1bvV6FQ

This is in the works. I've seen you post many times that we aren't doing this, but we are. I'm confused. This exit strategy was announced last year. It is happening, it has started already.[/QUOTE]

Well, yes and no. Yes, it was announced last year, but Obama committed an extra ~30,000 troops to Afghanistan (I know, not Iraq, but still viewed as the same war by many) at the end of last year and says that after 18 months, they will start to come home. Perhaps I'm being a bit too nitpicky...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...n-and-pakistan


And you're right, we barely own ourselves anymore. My house is mortgaged. My car is leased. I wonder when I will have to spend 50 cents per day just to get into my closet in order to wear my clothes for the day, the money paying for cell phones for the homeless or something. I'll have to haggle with someone holding toilet paper that I BOUGHT, and end up paying an arranged price-per-square in order to fund their salary. Or something equally as ridiculous.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I said I wasn't going to vote for Obama, I didn't say I wasn't going to vote for anyone. The POTUS doesn't make up our whole government, Dee.

eta: and I know we have military in other countries, but it's the Middle East where the problem is and will continue.

I don't agree that Afghanistan and Iraq are the same in any way, shape or form. One country is harboring the people who attacked us. The other was no imminent threat and we charged in and overthrew their government because our President had a personal grudge.

Obama also did NOT promise to end things in Afghanistan, only in Iraq. People who view these as the same thing are wrong. The real issue is that we didn't spend the resources in Afghanistan that we should have and instead poured resources into Iraq. And I find it a little ludicrous that the president who inherited that mess is the one that is being attacked about it. /hijack

If this is the way those states choose to spend their stimulus package dollars, isn't that up to them? I don't see what the problem is here. Some people have figured out that it's worse for the state has a whole to have 30% of their homes abandoned than to pay for those homes. They are avoiding blight this way. It's a good move in some situations.

And the war in Afghanistan is an ideal too, not a war. It's apart of the "War on Terror", which is an intangible thing. It's impossible to win a war like that.

That was the statement I used to conclude that you won't vote for anybody.

The Middle East is a hotbed of unrest. I don't anticipate that changing any time soon and as long as we're dependent on foreign oil, we have to protect some of our interests there. We can't afford not to, to some extent.

I just find it strange that you're so angry with the guy who is trying to fix this mess that the last POTUS got us into and I really don't understand why because he is doing what he said he would do.. health care reform, pulling out of Iraq, etc. Is it just not happening fast enough for you?

Thus my earlier comment about the magic wand. A lot of people don't realize just how limited the power of the United States President is. Any far reaching change will take a long time.

We have a specific person/group of people and a specific reason why we want them, with Afghanistan.

I think people like cheerfulgreek realize that.

Desperation and anti-Bush sentiments are why people acted and sometimes act like they don't understand that. I won't get on the Obama rant but I'll say that my predictions during the election came true. He was celebrated for being a great orator and charismatic speaker and leader for NO REASON. Reality has sunk in and people aren't getting the "boom boom clack" (a la Making the Band) that they dumbly assumed they would get. Reality bites, bitches!!!!!!!!

I knew what you were referring to, but I didn't say I wasn't going to vote for anyone.

No, it's just that we're spending money in so many other parts of the world, and not tending to our own backyard. We owe so much money, our economy is screwed up etc. And this is isn't all Bush's fault. This all started before him. He just made it worse. And the Middle East has been doing this since forever. What makes anyone think the US can go in and change things over there?

We just have two different opinions, Dee.

Dee, this is an ideal we are fighting, not a war. This ideal is all over the world, not just the Middle East. You cannot win an ideal.

We're fighting a war, they're fighting an ideal.

Yep. THIS!

That's the thing though. We weren't going to destroy terrorism. We were going to Afghanistan after an organization that committed an act of war against us, and those who were harboring them.

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan started before Bush? I don't think so.

Our craptastic economy? Umm again, the fault of the Bush administration.

Yes, most of our problems did stem from the Bush administration, like it or not.

Do I think Obama's doing a fantastic job? No. Yet you can't say that all our problems stemmed from Obama's administration.

I already said that he's just one person, he's not our whole government.