Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1905463)

Kevin, what you don't seem to understand is that you are arguing from a false premise, and it is that false premise -- the blanket assertion that all unemployment is essentially the fault of the unemployed -- that I am challenging.

Where have I ever said that there should be no cut-off or advocated indefinite guaranteed mimimums? I haven't suggested either. I've merely said that dismissing the entire problem with "well, it's their own fault" is a cop-out. One rarely gets to the right solution if one doesn't at least attempt to understand the problem.

Simplistic thinking is never needed. Real problems require real thinking.

But if you're really concerned about the overall economy, maybe we should add "corporate welfare" to the discussion. Oh, wait, that's a complicated issue ill-served by simplistic sound bytes, too.

Clearly, you are assuming facts not in evidence, as I've never said society's role should be bigger, unless you mean bigger than nothing. I don't know what "my way" is, so I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

Frankly, I readily admit I don't know what the right answer is. But I do know that ignoring or dismissing the problem isn't the right answer. I know that refusing at least an attempt to understand the problem isn't the answer. And I know that every option, including doing little or nothing, can have unintended consequences, and that sometimes those unintended consequences turn out to be bigger problems than the original problem. Which is why critical thinking skills, not simplistic explanations, are called for.

And to be honest, it's why when I hear someone offer a response of essentially qu'ils mangent de la brioche, I assume they don't have any real clue what they're talking about or insights worth paying attention to.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1905463)

[I]qu'ils mangent de la brioche[/I

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 1905190)

Go ahead and comment. I hate dumb rednecks. I don't like the ghetto drug dealers either, but I'll bet you can take a drug dealer who lives in the ghetto, and put him or her at the top of a major corporation and he or she would be successful, and that's because numbers are numbers, you either get it or you don't. But the trailer trash wouldn't have a freaking clue. They're too dumb to even spell GED. Idiots!

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1905437)

He's working in his dad's firm.

Not that there's anything wrong with that -- not at all. But I've been around long enough to know that doesn't necessarily provide eternal job security.

Originally Posted by Prettyface08 (Post 1905473)

Since when does drug dealer = ghetto? Not all drug dealers are 'ghetto'. Is it that you just don't like the Ghetto ones? Or is it that you consider anyone who sells drugs ghetto? Serious questions.

Originally Posted by libramunoz (Post 1905202)

Yes, when the system was designed in 1935, it was designed as a system of relief for those that needed help. It was designed along with the SSA, the CCC, and Medicare/Medicaid. It was designed because of the fact that there was a major depression within the country, and FDR was trying his hardest to get people to eat within the country while being able to maintain some sense of dignity while being able to stimulate the economy.

The truth of the matter is that it almost didn't work and the country almost remained within a depressive state UNTIL America entered into WWII as of Dec. 1941. That's just a matter of fact.

However, what people DON'T look at is the fact that MOST people that get on AFDC, Welfare, Assistance, Aid, TANF, whatever a person wants to call it, they get OFF of it within 3 to 5 months. It's just a stated fact and this is something that people tend to overlook in quoting or stating that people that get on welfare, blah, blah, blah.

I'm sorry, I have read these comments on here and am virtually disgusted in what I am reading. Yes, it's just my opinion, and no I shouldn't take things personally, however, being currently unemployed, it becomes a slightly personal matter.

People tend to act like when you're unemployed, you want to be there. They act like you don't want to get up and go to work. They act like you cannot envy those who have a job and wish to God it was you going with them. But hell, the truth of the matter is, sometimes, it just ain't so.

I can say that I don't like being unemployed. I hate it above many things in my life. I can't say that I haven't tried to get a job. But I cannot make people hire me. I cannot go into an office and point a gun and say, "would you hire me, pppppllllleeeeeaaaassssee?" It just ain't gonna work.

It's not easy being in this poisition. Trust me. You get the "look" when people ask you what are you doing and you say, "well, I'm currently unemployed..." and you can say that I'm doing volunteer work with the Girl Scouts or for the church, and people inadvertenly (?) give you the "look." As if to say, "you lazy, trifling, blah, blah, blah."

But what people fail to look at is that you too are struggling with paying your bills, trying to find a job, trying to juggle temp jobs, hell, just trying to find a temp job. You too are wondering how are you going to have enough food, water, lights in order to survive until the next day. You too are wondering how are you gonna make it. You still struggle to survive. It's not a position that you WANT to be in, hell, sometimes, you just find yourself in it.

I can personally testify that having been out of a job for this long, I do long to have that 8 to 5, 12 to 6, hell even 7 to 11, I wouldn't care, it's a job and it helps to pay my bills. Maybe Delay needs to stop and see how long he would be able to last if he had to be unemployed and if he had no health insurance and if all he could be able to rely on is unemployment. Maybe he needs to try this for a few days and see if it's something that he could then understand and back off in saying that people who are unemployed just don't want to work.

I'm sorry it isn't about others coming into this country and working, it's not about being able to just jump up and start a business, it's not about it being a person that lives in the country or about a person that lives in a ghetto or barrio. It is about being able to survive when you are wondering if your lights are going to be on the next day, being able to survive when you don't know how to pay the water bill, being able to survive when you're hungry and being able to have the faith to be able to stay sane during your time of trial and tribulation.

Sorry about the rant, but this just seemed to strike a wrong nerve within me. O.k., back to slightly normal and jumping off the soapbox.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1905463)

Kevin, what you don't seem to understand is that you are arguing from a false premise, and it is that false premise -- the blanket assertion that all unemployment is essentially the fault of the unemployed -- that I am challenging.

Originally Posted by bosaco (Post 1905484)

indian bum?

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1905392)

I can hardly come to any other conclusion though. If someone spends however many months on the dole as are currently allowed and has yet to find a job, when does the blame shift from the economy or somesuch other nebulous entity to the individual? Does it ever shift?

And let's just assume all of these "It's not their fault" premises ad arguendo. Why are their problems my problems? Why must I and other taxpayers continue to watch the money I spend in taxes go to solve their problems? Pay their bills? Bail them out? I don't think anyone could reasonably believe that the current federal fiscal irresponsibility can continue indefinitely. But I get to watch as my money is spent on this crap and then I, who will still be gainfully employed for the rest of my life, will get to bear a lot more than my fair share in paying it back. But I guess I shouldn't have a problem with that?

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1905475)

To be fair, she hates dumb rednecks...not all rednecks are dumb nor are all dumb people rednecks....right?

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1905395)

You don't know what tomorrow will bring. Because of your situation you may believe that you will have your job 'forever' but you never know what may happen that *POW* you could be unable to work.

Kevin not everyone's life is like yours, people on GC have told you that time and time again and I don't think you get that. It's not everyone has the ability to find a job 'just like that' and it's not for a lack of trying. Like others on here, I have friends with multiple degrees who can't find work regardless of the income spectrum they are looking.

I also agree with AGDee, libramunoz and MC have said. It's not as 'easy' or 'simplistic' as you say...hell if you want to be a help, give libramunoz a hand, make yourself useful, start a job bank or something so that way you can at least feel like you've helped someone who needs it. It kills me also the people that complain that unemployed people are lazy but aren't doing anything to help them.


Kevin it really amazes me how you come out looking when you enter into these kinds of debates...and you keep coming back.

Originally Posted by bosaco (Post 1905492)

There are tons of jobs in health care

Originally Posted by bosaco (Post 1905484)

Top be honest, when I hear your people make excuses and I see illegals sneaking into the country and outperforming your people I assume you don't have any real clue.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1905485)

Tom Delay made that assertion. I did not. I simply stated that welfare has to end at some point.

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1905496)

Ok, like all your n-word posts weren't offensive enough.

If I hear one more person say in ANY context "there are sooooo many jobs in health care" in any context I'm gonna fucking take them out with a tube sock full of wood screws.

The LAST thing we need in this country is people who are only working in health care because that's the only thing that is available. There are enough screwups going on as it is. I'm sick of people trying to push people into this shit field.