Yeah what the hell was I thinking standing on a soapbox trying to rally a bunch of liberals behind me to help defend against anything anti american. I must be crazy. Comparable to hippies of the 60's debating political issues while cranked out of their minds on acid?

I dont give two shits wether or not America is right or wrong, when the decision is passed to go to war. The ONLY thing that matters to me is that I am an AMERICAN, and I will be until the day I die, so by God when we go to war it dont matter a damn to me who is right and who is wrong, only that we win. Call me what you will but youll never call me a tree hugging hippie commie bastard. I dont have to use my education here and debate. I can continue to be a redneck just so long as I bleed red, white, and blue.

I too retract my comment of leaving. Sorry I was at lunch and wasnt able to do it sooner. You guys can stoke up the Dave Mathews albums and pour a nice hot cafe latte and enjoy your debate. Me, I'm gonna continue to be me. And I will be damned if I need to justify the actions of my country to anyone.

P.S. Bill Maher or whatever is another damn liberal that needs to be shipped off somewhere where only he, and his Democrat cronnies can sit and bash the policy makers that keep him and his family safe at night.

I don't see any reason why this thread should be closed. Plenty of other offensive posts have remained. If we can discuss this as adults, rather than result to flaimng and name-calling, I believe this could be a productive discussion.

"I may not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."--Voltaire''

Now my opinion on the attacks themselves:

Terrorism has been going on for YEARS back by Bin Laden. Each time the USA has been a victim of a strike, we have arrested a few individuals and then let the rest go, seeking diplomatic solutions. The original WTC bombing in 1995 and subsequent attacks on US Embassies in Africa attest to this.

The people we are up against will not settle for diplomatic solutions. We want them to stop attacking us, they want nothing from us. You can't bargain if you have nothing to offer.

Therefore, the only thing left to do is detroy their ability to continue these attacks in any way we know how. If that means civilian deaths, it is unfortunate, but there is no other option.

And finally, my most controversial opinion for which I will certainly get attacked:

We are at war. It is the nature of war that it leads to casualties. So who should be the first to go? A starving, opressed woman in Afghanistan, or a productive member of American society. I am not trying to say that you can place value on a life or judge someone in that manner, but why are we worried about Afghan citizens at the expense of our own? Why is it a crime to kill Afghan civilians, yet not a crime to leave ourselves open to attack? Isn't is just as much a crime if the government allows Americans to be sacrificed?

Like I said, my opinions are not popular, but I try to present them in an appropriate manner.

Billy Mac, I humbly extend my hand of friendship to you. I may disagree, but I respect your independence.

I respect everyones opinions on here because everyone has a right to opinion.

Accepted. I dont really think that it is the Taliban that we greekchaters are against, but the coons ransacking Lil G's garbage. We let our anger get channeled in the wrong direction.

I also would like to extend my friendship not only to BillyMac, but everyone who I respect.

Agree, we should go after the pest

I agree, racoons need to stay out of our yards.

I want more raccoon pics. That was pretty entertaining.

Let's not get into liberal-bashing mode over this - I consider myself a liberal, and I back the bombings 100%, as well as think that Bush and his advisors have made the right moves so far. So please, don't make this into a "why I hate liberals" post.

can you imagine what would have happened if any others up for election had become president. Bush and his staff have done AWESOME

i dont think closing/deleting the thread is the right way to go. People are just expressing their opinions and thoughts. I dont think anyone is "attacking" or insulting anyone.

Just because you dont agree with what someone posted is not a reason to leave the boards or give the moderators an ultimatum "either you close it or I leave". So, i am not going to close the thread- if it gets out of hand, then thats another thing- but so far, i think its okay.

Thanks for dropping by bucutie. This thread got jacked up four pages like two hours ago so your a little late.

Youll close threads when other people request it, why not me? Even though thats not the point anymore. I have you seen you tripping over your own two feet to close threads before so please lets not go there. Frankly, you werent the moderator I was turning to.

I wasnt giving you an ultimatum.

We would probably be fine without the commie remarks, and sarcasm towards liberals

Hrmmm . . ..
 

Wow, you all became so nice to eachother so quickly!

A lot of the statements made in Ary's original message are not wrong and are certainly legitimate ways to look at some of the US's actions and intentions.

I understand people's need to keep anger at a high pitch so that we can perpetuate the feeling of crisis long enough to follow through on military action.

I find it peculiar that people need strong emotion: anger/rage to do what needs to be done. Because anger and rage cloud intellegent thinking/planning and allow you to be manipulated. Its a weakenss I certainly don't encourage in my self. But its certainly a weakness that will let me go on to greater success than I would probably otherwise achieve if people were better thinkers. When I meet people like that I mentally thank them and every time I shake their hand I hear mental cash register sounds.

So to me the point is simple: We want to stop our enemy from attacking us and hurting us. The easiest way to do this is to kill the enemy, destroy his/her support system, and decimate the population that the enemy draws his people from.

I am not mad about it, I just think its common sense. But hey, some people need the raw raw and drama.

If that means depopulating the entire region, going after their loved ones first and making painful examples of them, or whatever, then so be it.

I am not saying we are right or wrong ethically, or righteous or not righteous morally, those kind of questions complicate my simple mind. I make no pretense towards any degree of intellegence or sophistication, so to me its a simple matter of Us against Them. And I support Us. That removes a lot of the philosophy behind it and reduces it to how best to remove them. Operational versus theoretical.

I am glad that some of you stepped back from the pissing contest that the thread was becomeing although I had some really cool viscious comments that I was going to make at your expenses. But at least the moderators no longer have to judge who's dicks were bigger . . . sorry had to slip at least one comment in:)

As far as the US miltary goes, we have come so far in the ten years since the gulf war that we have amazing weapons of destruction. Its probbaly good for us, we can now kill more people from farther away than ever before. It will be less scarring on our own soliders because they won't for the most part SEE who they are killing or even have to watch them die. A Great Uncle served in the German Army during WWII at 14 on the Eastern Front, a russian jumed into his hole and hesitate seeing a little kid, my uncle didn't and bayoneted him . . it took the russian a while to die . . . messed my Uncle up good for life in some ways. Killing up close with a blade is personal. Killing someone after pushing a button is something you can have a beer over later. Very good for us, and bad for our enemies . . . until their technology catches up.

So let us by all means discuss this intellegently and rationally. Let us all means acknowledge the shortcomings of our politicians, their polices and its effect on the United States. And let us by all means be scathing and critical of them. We were before and they haven't suddenly changed into saints. IT sounds like a great happy hour discussion over a few shots of tequilla/jack daniels, and rum and diet's, my drinks of choice.

And then afterwards let us coldly and dissapassionately kill our enemies, burn their villages, and raze their crops to the ground.

PS. From what I understand Bill Maher's comments were taken highly out of context in the raw raw days after the attack . . . he probably should have known they were going to eviscerate him but they were not the way they were made out to be.

PPS. KsigRc, probably Gor's reactions would have been similar, he would have had good people also working for him, but he may not have been as likely to immediately start thinkin of legislation to limit certain civil rights on the domesticate side . . but who knows there is a lot of pressure right now to be restrictive.