Or if you took a shot everytime someone started clapping randomly. ;)

I agree. You can only blame the last guy for so long. Plus, the resesetion was caused by the housing market bust, which was caused by suburban sprawl (which is right of the manifesto).

I didn't watch this, I was the train back from finding a new place in a new state. I'm sleepy.

As for "blaming" the old administration - every administration does that to some extent. There's also a big difference between these two ideas:

1) The current administration doesn't deserve any blame because of the shortcomings of the Bush administration.

2) The Bush administration should be blamed for certain things, and the Obama administration should be blamed for certain things. Some of those things are mutually exclusive to each administration.

My sense is that the Obama administration rhetoric is closer to #2, while some administration supporters in the public and press are saying something closer to #1.

It cracks me up when people talk about the above points as if they are the standard Republican platform. These are issues talked up by a vocal minority of the Republican party in a (apparently successful) effort to get attention. Note to everyone: Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh don't speak for the party.

One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

What frustrates me is that during the GW's second run for President, they talked down the national debt as if it were no big deal. Now that it's a Dem in office running it up, it's suddenly a major deal again.

I'm not as upset about spending in general, but what things the money is spent ON. I keep hearing that Dems are tax and spend, but I've had a bigger tax cut through the stimulus package than I did through Bush's tax cuts all put together. It's all a bunch of rhetoric. They all spend more money than we have, just like most of our citizens are doing.

I would love for someone to stand up and point out the obvious: If you spend beyond your means, it is a problem. Whether it's the country, a business or individual citizens. GET OUT OF DEBT people. Do NOT mortgage your house to 100%+ equity. Equity in your home does not equal free money. This country is so incredibly wasteful and greedy. Everybody wants to have it all and we want it right now. If we were ALL more responsible, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Exactly.

And Obama VERY BRIEFLY mentioned this, and basically said that people need to be more educated about how they're spending their money... yet he proposed no ideas as to how to make that happen.

I feel as though, as a country, we are generally pretty clueless when it comes to economics and how to handle major financial decisions. Someone needs to work to fix that.

We haven't seen any stimulus, either. In fact, the closest we've gotten was a notice that we may have to put subcontractors on our payroll, which would cause our prices to sky-rocket! We are already considering our options, should it go through - including selling the business. How does that stimulate the economy?

I'm not sure who "they" are, but, again, there are a lot of conservatives who are pretty upset with the way that Bush ran up the national debt and the way he spent. And, as I've said before on this board, if the Dems actually ran a credible candidate that year (instead of Kerry, who's not even a good Senator), then that election could have been a whole different story.

As far as hearing that Dems are "tax and spend," well that's just the stereotype that's come up over the years. Both sides put out rhetoric, it's just the name of the game. It's not like the Dems always stick to the issues and never use rhetoric.

I just wonder when people can finally acknowledge that BOTH parties do this stuff. If the health care debate has taught us anything, it's that both parties love using the moral high ground argument when it's convenient for them.

ETA: I'd also like us to stop talking about "Wall Street and Main Street." It's such a flawed concept that I don't even know where to start.

Drinking game rules:

Take one shot for every time Obama says:

Bipartismism
Trillions
any reffernce to bush (except for the exception below)

take two shots:
every time Joe Bieden looks he trying to figure out if Obama is making fun of him

a Republican doesn't clap
they pan to someone who looks bored (drink four if it is al franken

drink three shots:

they pan to a republican clapping that stops clapping when they realize they're on camera

drink four shots:

If Al Franken is shown for any reason (I still can't believe he is a U.S. Senator)

If someone who is complimented is panned to and has a look like they are uncomfortable or don't understand the compliment

you're right, this won't be as fun as Bush, but I doubt many Presidents would be as much fun as him anyway

ETA: the Bush Exeception:

If it Obama praises the previous administion in anyway.....TAKE 5 SHOTS

As I am what I consider a "true" conservative (social and fiscal), I can attest to the above. I was appalled with the spending that occurred under Bush. With the full employment we enjoyed and low taxes we could have easily maintained a balanced budget and should have been able to start paying off some of our massive debt. Look at the fiasco of "No Child Left Behind" and the prescription drugs program for seniors.

As a swerve;

If I were in charge or had the power I would propose:

1. exempting the first $35K of wages from income taxes
2. moving to a flat rate of 14% for everything over $35K for everyone
3. remove all deductions except for charitable
4. a 10% reduction in spending across the board for all departments in the Federal govt.
5. do away with all czar's
6. shut down the Surgeon General's Office
7. return the Dept. of Educations duties to the states
8. cut capital gains to 15%
9. reduce the tax burden on small businesses (20 employees or less) by 1/2
10. privatize Social Security for those under 55 years of age
11. totally revamp Medicaid and Medicare
12. do away with all earmarks
13. do away with the inheritance tax
14. require that everyone pay their taxes directly to the IRS themselves and not have them paid via their employer
15. not allow congress to increase their own pay. approval by the voting public, only.
16. term limits of 2 six year terms for the senate and 6 two year terms for the house
17. require that for every law written by congress one must be rescinded. the less laws they write the better.
18. require the budget to be balanced by law

When you get right down to it the root of most evil in Washington is via manipulation of the tax codes for self interest. The above would most certainly shut down a large portion of the IRS and yield further savings.

Off my "true conservative" soap box, now.

"They" were Bush administration/supporters during that election who responded when questioned on it.

I wasn't blaming one side for the rhetoric. I'm really hating the two party system that people hide behind. Instead of doing things "along party lines" and causing constant deadlock, why not take each issue individually and deal with it individually according to what the majority of the constituents in your area believe in. Are we really "of the people, by the people, and for the people" here or are we "of the party, by the party and for the party"? It feels like the latter.

I agree about Main Street and Wall Street too.

And here's the place I like most:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/oba...union-address/

i sure hope his Q/A at the republican retreat wasn't just for the cameras and empty posturing.

Not yet, but if it continues at the same rate, he will.

I call bullshit. Cite your sources.

Here we go again. Are you all bored? LOL