Actually, it's completely different. No one looked at you and said "gee, he *looks* smart enough, let's decide that he doesn't have to take this class because of his appearance." Nope. They took some objective measure of your intellect and determined that you had the requisite knowledge such that you could skip the entry level course.

Just because someone is overweight does not mean they are uneducated about health and fitness.

Again - Just because someone is overweight does not mean they are uneducated about health and fitness. If this class is meant to teach people, then it should be targeted towards those who are uneducated. Yes, there is a chance that most 30+ BMI people need the education. But I guarantee you that not all of them do. Sometimes overweight people have an incredible wealth of knowledge about health and fitness, they simply do not have it in them to apply that knowledge.

The problem here isn't that they have the class. The problem is that the way you "test" out of it is subjective. It has nothing to do with knowledge. And shouldn't it? Shouldn't you only be able to test out of a class if you can demonstrate that you already have that level of knowledge?

What would be so wrong about saying that everyone has to take the class, and if they want to avoid taking it they can test out of it? Not by proving they are thin enough, but by proving they are knowledgeable enough?

No, it's very different. You took a test and passed out of it - you showed your knowledge. It wasn't based on a number whose usefulness is debated even within the medical community.

I mean, if you want to determine if people are physically fit, give them a freaking physical fitness test - don't just look at their BMI. And even then, as I said, it should be all or nothing. And even then, I'm sorry, but I just don't think this has anything to do with college.

Elementary school and high school are different than college. Period. They're paid for by the taxpayers and are teaching much younger children.

That's another thing. What about returning students? As I said, when you get older your metabolism goes. It's discriminatory to older students.

I had typed a response to all this and lost it. Sooooo... in a nutshell:

I have to agree with KSigRC on this. Having below 30 BMI = testing out, IMO. Sure, BMI may not be the best test, but it's black & white and easy to figure. I can see why they chose BMI as the determining factor.

Regarding pbear's and 33girl's statements about knowledge, I don't think knowledge is always enough. And I think that's consistent with the ultimate goal of institutions of higher learning. Having knowledge about healthy lifestyles isn't enough to keep you from being obese. It'd be like a smoker telling an insurance company that his premiums should be that of a non-smoker's since he knows the dangers of smoking. Knowledge needs to be put into action if it's really to mean anything.

Hmm. So you think that it's appropriate to force a 100-level course on a 30+ BMI person who knows everything there is to know about health and fitness, but who has a psychological barrier from putting that knowledge into action? Just because of their psychological issues? What exactly is that class going to teach them?

It is a very REAL fact that many people who are overweight are overweight because of emotional/psychological issues. A basic health class in college isn't going to fix that, and in some cases it makes it worse. To single them out for their weight, in spite of their level of knowledge, could very well exacerbate the underlying issues.

As for the analogy of the smoker and his insurance premiums, I'm completely lost on how that is even remotely similar to this situation. I don't think anyone is saying the 30+ BMI person is healthy. It's just that a college course should be about disseminating knowledge. And BMI is NOT a measure of knowledge.

So are many colleges, at least in part -- sometimes quite a large part.

I just don't see any problem at all with a college requiring a physical education/health component for all baccalaureate degrees. I'd say historically, it has been the rule rather than the exception.

I do quibble with (okay, laugh at) what has sometimes passed for phys ed/health at many colleges and universities, and I think Lincoln has gone about it all wrong, but I think a college education is about more than just getting a degree so you can go forth and work. College should be much more than an expensive training school.

I absolutely agree that many people who are overweight have psychological issues. While a health/PE class won't fix those issues, it will, perhaps, get the student moving more. Which, ideally, could reduce that student's BMI.

@ bolded: To an extent, yes, college courses should aim to produce knowledge. However, simply having knowledge about something isn't always enough. The smoking analogy was meant to convey that. A smoker may know the dangers of smoking (much like someone with a BMI over 30 may know the dangers of obesity), but until action is taken (i.e. quitting smoking, or losing weight), what good is that knowledge?

I took a 100-level health course in college because it was required of all students. I can't honestly say that I learned anything, but it wasn't a bad thing to have to take it.

Something else I just thought of: It's really short-sighted to single out the high-BMI students for this class for another reason. How many of the <30 BMI crowd know next to nothing about how to eat healthy because they are young and have never had to worry about it? What happens to them in 5 or 10 years when life suddenly catches up with them? Wouldn't it be a good idea to give them the skills and knowledge now so that they understand their unhealthy habits aren't going to fly in a few years? Or does the administration of the university just assume that those who are relatively thin now will always be like that? Heh. I can see how an 18 year old would think that. But I would have thought a college administrator would know better. Sometimes the people who have the worst health problems down the line are the ones who are thin and can eat any kind of junk they want when they are young, so they never learn the difference.

If the university really cared about its students, all students would be required to take the course.

@Sydney - Sounds like you are making the assumption that anyone with a 30+ BMI is inactive. There are a *lot* of overweight people who are quite active. Ever heard of the Athena and Clydesdale classes in running?

Nope. Not making that assumption at all. I'm sure there are people who have a high BMI who are active. But, if I were a betting person, I'd put money on 30+ BMI people, as a whole, being less active than below 30 BMI.

Question for anyone who is ok with the class being just for the 30+ BMI crowd:

Why do you think the university should not require this course of every student? Do you think that the "thin" students have nothing to learn, and are never going to be at risk of gaining weight? Do you genuinely think that the "thin" students are healthy, and have sufficient knowledge about health and fitness? Or is there some other reason?

I'm just really curious why the course shouldn't be required of everyone.

Honestly, I see it just as testing out. Students with below 30 BMI are exempt from the class just like, for example, students who score 36 in Math on the ACT are exempt from having to take College Algebra.

So they have the appropriate level of knowledge in health and fitness, because of their weight?

I guess I just can't see the logic in that. I've worked as a personal trainer and some of my thin clients were the least educated about health and fitness. They just took for granted they could eat whatever they wanted and get by because they'd always been thin. Then they started having health problems, or they got older and the weight surprised them, and they had no idea what to do about it. Whereas some of my overweight clients had all the knowledge in the world, but just couldn't get past their own barriers that kept them from applying it.

(And, for the record, my BMI is not 30+, lest anyone think I'm taking this too personally.)

ETA - I think I've just known way too many <30 BMI people who are extraordinarily uneducated about health to be unbiased about this one. There are *so* many people who are, for lack of a better word, just stupid about health, but outwardly appear to be healthy. I've got thin friends on more cholesterol meds than you would believe, thin friends who will down 10 sodas a day, thin friends who eat nothing but grease and junk... And some of them honestly believe they are healthy, even though their doctors would argue the point. But society tells them they are healthy because they aren't overweight.

Look, everyone gets that BMI is not a perfect test, but we're vastly overstating the degree to which it is disputed - it's sort of a classic "so many people think it is overrated that it's actually now underrated" problem. As a baseline measurement, it is as effective or more effective than nearly any other test you can administer quickly and non-invasively, as far as I know (and I'll readily admit to being no expert).

Being skinny is not specific evidence of "knowing all there is to know" about being healthy, but it is evidence of maintaining a healthy weight and body fat ratio. Being obese, however, is certainly specific evidence of being unhealthy - hence why the class is correctly targeted.

There is a perfectly valid argument that the course could do the most benefit if everyone took it, but as currently posed, I don't really see how the school's logic fails.

Thank you.

Aside from the "Is BMI a good measure of overall fitness?", I have a question for those who have been in college more recently than I. Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias? I ask because, I started college at a "healthy" weight by current BMI standards (although I thought I was hugely obese, which is another story altogether). Given that the only really edible foods in the cafeteria were the desserts, which they placed at the beginning of the food line and very high fat entrees and lots of carbs, it was very hard to maintain a proper weight. The vegetables were all canned and cooked to mushiness (ick) and the salad bar consisted of wilted iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, onions, bacon bits and croutons. There were no fat free salad dressings back then. Between that, the beer, the pizza, and the food at the only other place you could use your meal card (nachos, hot dogs, burgers, fries), I gained 40 pounds my freshman year, putting me 2 pounds over the BMI of 30. I went home that summer, lost the 40 pounds and went back to school my sophomore year and put them right back on. I went home again and lost it again... So, I'm curious, since our society is, in general, much more health conscious, are healthy choices offered now?

That very question was asked of the Lincoln official in the interview I heard. He basically said that they can't afford to serve healthier food.

Yeah.