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-   -   Total Too Low??? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=100848)

AGDee 02-11-2009 05:20 PM

NPC recommends a couple different ways to calculate Total for a campus. Average Chapter Size is one. Highest chapter size is another. I don't recall the other 2 or 3 offhand. They are also currently recommending that this be reviewed annually. Chapters may *always* take quota, even if it puts them over Chapter Total. While I would encourage a discussion with the NPC Area Advisor that oversees your campus, 35 seems fine to me for your campus. If recruitment numbers are high next year and everybody gets to 35, bump it up again.

ASTalumna06 02-11-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denise_DPhiE (Post 1778488)
Then yes, lowering total would allow those groups to still be at 80% of total or so which is probably a requirement of their national. Any chapter who falls below 80% of total (for us) is on standards review and if it is a campus situation, it gets reviewed, otherwise they'd get focus chapter status (lots of attention from recruitment folks)

I'm going to go off topic a bit, but...

In terms of National organizations, each sorority is different. While ours would obviously like us to do well with recruitment, as far as I can tell, AST chapters are generally very small. For as long as I’ve been a member, we’ve never received major pressure to get our numbers up. One chapter, on the other hand, from what I’ve observed, receives a lot of pressure from the higher-ups, but they’re the largest chapter. The third chapter, they want to be closer to total if for no other reason than to lower their dues. They are required to pay dues as if their chapter was at total. So even if they have 25 members, they have to pay as if there are 40.

But basically, the national organizations’ opinions don’t really matter (don’t take that too literally!). And this whole situation in itself makes things extremely difficult when discussions regarding total have come up.

Ok, back to the topic at hand...

ASTalumna06 02-11-2009 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 1778490)
Chapters may *always* take quota, even if it puts them over Chapter Total.

I don't know if you were just saying this in general, or if you were actually applying it to our situation (and I don't know if I've mentioned this here yet), but we don't have a total/quota system. We have COB year-round and we can only bid to total.

ASTalumna06 02-12-2009 07:39 PM

anyone..? :D

agzg 02-12-2009 07:50 PM

I think lowering your total to 35 would be good. You guys are used to smaller pledge classes, and from what you've been saying your greek advisor would like your campus to start thinking about partially structured recruitment - basically working together more on your recruitment.

Don't quote me on that, though, because I haven't talked to her about it.

Ultimately, it's going to help your smaller chapter, your chapter will probably be in a similar position, and it's not necessarily going to hurt your largest chapter. They're graduating three, but how many a potential transfers/inactives/etc. I'm pretty sure with that GLO they can have "senior status" or "early alum" or at least that's what they did on my campus. They shouldn't encourage members to do that, but I don't think being at total will hurt them.

ASTalumna06 02-12-2009 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam (Post 1779003)
Ultimately, it's going to help your smaller chapter, your chapter will probably be in a similar position, and it's not necessarily going to hurt your largest chapter. They're graduating three, but how many a potential transfers/inactives/etc. I'm pretty sure with that GLO they can have "senior status" or "early alum" or at least that's what they did on my campus. They shouldn't encourage members to do that, but I don't think being at total will hurt them.

I don't think being at total will hurt them, either. It would, however, not be great for them to only be able to gain 3 new members total for Fall 09 and Spring 10.

And I'm not saying this is a reason to not lower total, but... I think that if it was lowered, it might create some hostility from the larger chapter. I'm not saying that they're "big and mean" or anything, but if the other two sororities vote to lower total, I can see them thinking that we want to limit their recruiting so that the smaller chapters can gain more members and play some catch up. If the chapters were always up and down in terms of who was on top in the numbers game, then it might not be that big of a problem. But they've always tried to increase total (why, I'm not really sure) and another chapter has always tried to lower it. We've basically been stuck in the middle because our numbers were so low that we basically "didn't care".

Again arises the problem of trying to make everyone think "go Greek" instead of "join ABC" and "join XYZ"

agzg 02-12-2009 10:12 PM

Well if they can't take any members then maybe they'll be forced to think "Go Greek" more than "Join ABC."

ASTalumna06 02-12-2009 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam (Post 1779065)
Well if they can't take any members then maybe they'll be forced to think "Go Greek" more than "Join ABC."

Hopefully.

gatordeltapgh 02-13-2009 11:53 AM

The other part of this puzzle is that your NPC Area Advisor will also make a recommendation to the FSA about what she thinks. The NPC Delegates of the three groups will also let their chapter know what they think. So it may be out of the chapter's hands so to speak.

Some groups require that their chapter follows their recommendations while other groups give a recommendation and let the chapter vote how they would like.

In the MOI page MR 13 gives you a whole slew of questions that should be answered as part of the total review along with recommendations of how to make the decision. It is a process - that is for sure! :)

ASTalumna06 02-13-2009 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeta13Girl (Post 1779278)
Also I think your school would definitely benefit from some sort of structured recruitment. You might want to go in and talk to the GA about possibly developing a form of structured recruitment and I think every GLO would agree that that would be a good idea.

I definitely think that having a more structured form of recruitment in the spring would be better. However, that could be a long process to establish. Many people here don't even know what a structured recruitment system is. I know a lot about it from coming here, from reading recruitment rules and guidelines from other campuses, and from my friends who are Greek are other schools. However, you mention release figures, recruitment counselors, and quota to the sisters here and it goes right over their heads. I think the problem is that no one is educated about what the GA is trying to do... hence the reason why people get so upset.

The suggestion to move total from 40 to 30 last semester was a big jump, especially before our larger recruitment period. But from 40 to 35 now doesn't seem so crazy. I think a major problem will be getting all of the chapters to understand the logic behind it.

AXOrushadvisor 02-16-2009 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 1739270)
This whole situation seems ridiculous to me. But I’ll let all of you decide. :)

The chapter I advise is on a campus with two other NPC sororities. There has always been a debate as to what to do about total, and it has been brought up at least once each year in Panhellenic. Even with many discussions lasting far longer than they should, total has stayed at 40 for at least the past 7 years.

Just yesterday at a business meeting, I handed out a recruitment survey to all of the sisters to fill out, and in one of the questions I had said, “Total stands at 40…” and someone said, “Just so you know, total was just changed.” I found out that it went from 40 to 30. Even in the past when it had been discussed, it was never brought up that it should be this drastic of a change. From 40 to 35, maybe. But 40 to 30 seems extreme (I don’t know if it would seem that way on other campuses, but this is a huge jump for us because we’re so small already).

As I said, there are 3 NPC sororities on campus. In the time since I’ve been a sister (and knowing a little about the few years before I joined), I have seen/heard one of those chapters reach total a few times, one of those chapters has come extremely close once or twice, and one chapter has never had more than 20. We only have informal recruitment, so gaining interest for each individual chapter can be challenging.

This past semester, there was a huge interest in Greek life, especially among freshmen women, and with deferred recruitment, everyone is looking forward to a successful spring recruitment.

Which is why I’m confused. Right now, one chapter has 16 members, one has 24, and another has 28. It makes no sense to me why they would lower total by this much.

I know that one chapter always wants to have their numbers close to total, simply because they are required to pay dues according to what total stands at (Ex: Total is at 40, dues are $10 per member, they pay $400 no matter how many members they have). This is one of the main reasons why total has been brought up year after year.

But I also have to wonder if this decision has been partially influenced by the Greek Advisor. Although she’ll never admit it, she clearly wants to move closer to a more structured form of recruitment. I completely agree that it would be beneficial to SLOWLY move in that direction. But she seems to want to do it all at once. Also, she’s been heard talking about bringing another sorority to campus. I would think it was a rumor, but they are currently attempting to bring another fraternity to campus, also, and that might happen within the next year or so. I would think that if it was attempted to bring another sorority to campus, the whole project might fail, as we’re still attempting to gain a general interest in Greek life on campus.

IMO, I think the Greek Advisor wants to bring the sororities to total in order to “prove” that we either a) need formal recruitment, or b) need another sorority.

What do all of you think? Opinions? Even if you were to exclude the aspect of the Greek Advisor’s standpoint, do you think that it was wise for them to lower total with two chapters who are now very close to that ceiling, and with a quickly approaching spring recruitment period that will most likely be very successful?

Usually totals are lowered or raised based on past performance. Since none of your groups have NOT been at total for the last 7 years I think it makes sense. 10 is usually the number I have seen it raised by. It shouldn't make any difference to any of the Chapters.


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