I can see how your chapter threatening to take you to standards becaue you wanted to be a rho gamma unified your chapter and brought it closer.

^^^Yes, I'm surprised to hear her chapter hazed "the pretty one".

well im not going to standards and that is not hazing at all that is chapter operations like the title of this thread so dont worry you two!!:p

OK, maybe it was because my chapter only had 55 members active at a time, but I find it strange that you wouldn't know all of your chapter members. How did you vote on new members to begin with? Call me old fashioned, but I made it a point of knowing every new member's name-no matter how many pledge classes were behind me. I may not have known their cat's name, or their favorite bedtime story as a kid, but I knew their name and a little about every sister. That is what creates unity. Talking, not...

55 is huge based on my standards. But I guess you could at least recognize 55 people when you see them and know their names. I don't know if I could do it but that was never an option for us.

In some groups, only the people who have actually met the person vote on him/her. I don't think anyone is going to tell you much more than that on here. How large are the groups at the school you're talking about?

I just looked it up. The chapters range between 40-60 members for the GLOs on campus.

I'm just going to go with the "this guy isn't the brightest crayon in the box" theory. I don't think a memory lapse is an indicator of the efficacy of a pledge program or chapter unity.

I do know all of my chapter members. A pledge isn't a member and I don't see why it's a huge deal to not know some of the pledges on a name/face basis at the beginning of their pledge period. I can easily get a sense of what kind of guy some kid is right off the bat without knowing his name. I'll learn them eventually.

I think the claim "hazing creates unity" applies to unity within the pledge class, and I'd like to add to that, isolation from the chapter. That would explain why the president didn't know the pledge.

Hazing does create isolation from the chapter. That's fine, because despite what most here would have you believe, the pledges are not part of the chapter. I've seen what happens when pledge groups think they are on the same level as actives, and let me tell you, these chapters tend to not have strong brotherhood, in any sense of the word. I think 97% of this board still believes hazing means physically beating pledges or making them drink till they're black out drunk. Yes, that is bad and it does nothing but harm for the pledges, the actives, and Greek life as a whole. Going through a few hardships as a group never hurt anyone.

When I said that hazing unites a pledge class at the expense of isolation from the chapter, I meant that the isolation continues after initiation. Chapters that haze are not "chapters", just a series of isolated pledge classes.

And you know this first hand?

Because I sure do have tons of evidence that proves otherwise.

Sure, friends in other chapters at my school who have told me that their chapters haze say they feel resentful towards the older actives after initiation, and end up being close only to other members of their pledge class.

I would love to hear how you think hazing unifies a chapter.

Well first of all, let's define hazing (for lack of a better word).

I am talking, for example, about having pledges clean up the house early on a Saturday morning in a very short (but not impossible) amount of time. What's the catch? There isn't one. They're not drunk, no one is hitting them, and they don't have to use their toothbrushes. Hell, they don't have HAVE to do it at all, but they understand they will be cut if they don't. Pledging is optional, remember? The thing is, this "hazing" is purposeful and the pledges know that.

No one is in danger and no one is being degraded. If a pledge has a problem with some simple cleaning, then that's not the only problem he has, and he's not someone my chapter wants to be affiliated with. Believe it or not, there will be other times in life when you CHOOSE to do things you don't want to do because you are attracted to the reward. You probably don't want to study for your biology exam, but you want to get into med school, so you study hard and do well. There is no such thing as free lunch, because if there were such a thing, none of us would be in school. The pledge process is not unlike school. You (should have to) work hard to get where you want to be (whether that is being an active member of your GLO or having the job of your dreams).

Now, if you class my example with being beaten half to death with a paddle, then I really do not know what to tell you. If your friends feel resentful towards certain actives, they probably did a lot more than made the pledges clean and I'm just as much against that as the rest of you guys are.