The more I read of your posts, the more I get to thinking of Ft. Lewis and Fort Bragg.
Neither one, TTBOMK, has a GLO chapter on it.
To my POV, beliefs, experience, and opinion, GLO's have very little to nothing to do with Military training of any type or kind.

I have a true story.

Last fall I ran into two young men at work. I found out that they were part of a GLO at the local university and asked them if they knew one of their pledges worked there. They did not. No big deal, except one of the brothers did not even know the pledge. Why the big deal? That brother was the President of the GLO-which I knew was hazing. You tell me, does that sound like unity?

I think you can be unified without hazing. Your family doesn't haze. Churches don't haze. Did you haze your best friend? What about boy scouts or girl scouts?

I'm confused- the guys didn't know that they worked with one of their new members?

No, I think she's saying the president of the chapter didn't know one of the pledges in his chapter.

so that means he's clearly not the brightest crayon in the box- how is that hazing though?

LOL. It's not. I think she was responding to the "hazing creates unity" claim -- she knew these guys were from a chapter that hazes, yet they didn't have enough unity for the chapter president to know one of his own pledges.

I'm not sure it's an apt example, though. The "hazing creates unity" claim is usually made regarding unity within a pledge class ("we suffered together, we got each other through it, it made us stronger and closer"), not an entire chapter as such.

With the disclaimer that I do not support hazing of any kind, I'll say again what I've said before -- hazing, while destructive (for want of a better word) does, I think, tap into some very deep-rooted instincts and needs, at least for guys. I think that the laudable efforts to end hazing can only really succeed if we are aware of that and actively look for more constructive ways to meet those needs.

I think it relates to hazing because this was/is a fraternity known to haze their pledges. Someone else stated that hazing creates a sense of unity with the chapter. Since the president didn't even know the pledge, how did the hazing of the pledges create unity? (since if they were all united because of hazing, shouldn't the prez know the pledge?)


At least that's what I got out of it.

Everyone's group runs differently, for all we know this guy was prez in name only and was never around. Or, as cuteASAbug said, he just is stupid or bad with names. I don't think it's anything to get upset about.

I wasn't upset (and I hope I didn't sound like I was), I was just trying to put the pieces together as to why not knowing your pledges has anything to do with hazing. Sorry if it sounded like I was upset!:eek:

I didn't mean you hon :)

My friends and I hazed each other in the beginning of our friendship process. Hazing in this sense isn't based on the narrow definition of hazing provided by the anti-hazing buffs, though.

There are different forms of hazing in all of these institutions. Every institution has rituals, rites of passage, and things that members must do to be received by the other members. Some of these things are lightweight (just as some of the things GLOers do that gets labeled "hazing" is extremely lightweight but "bad" because aspirants and members don't have a choice) and other things are more intense depending on whose family, friends, church, and boy scout troop you're talking about.

Very true.

And as for Scouts, I do remember well the searches at camporees for left-handed monkey-wrenches, flag-pole keys and smoke shifters. ;)

And how times have changed.

Hazing has become a no no of any kind as manytimes even the most minor to some changed and became a hazard.

I'm not sure how long the president had to get to know all of his pledges......but that doesn't really sound like that big of a deal. I think it's taken me a while every year to get to know each pledge on a name/face basis, or at least the ones that I didn't help rush personally.

not everyone in my chapter knows everyone else but we are still sisters and we were hazed a little which helped us grow closer. who cares if the president didnt know a pledge?:confused: he was probably weird or something. nothing to do with hazing.