Well, I'll weigh in on this one....I agree that there should be a better way (but understand that due to numbers there may not be.) It seems to me as if relying on computers to work the numbers allows positively awesome girls to fall through the cracks. Situation I learned this week: a top girl in our community was a legacy to her mom's sorority and her sister's....two top sororities on campus, she naturally put them in her top two spots. When cut from those two legacy chapters, she got six parties from the next six spots on her list (I believe). Now....if after 3rd round, she is cut and left with only, say, 1 pref, she now has no chance to re-think or re-visit sororities 9-17? Because she "cut them"? I don't get it? Or, worse still, if she receives no bid, she cannot be "snapped" because she cut a group???? I'm so confused!

"Back in the day", didn't we get our invite list and then narrow that list down based on the number of openings? For example, if we were invited 12 places, but could pick 8, we chose our top 8. Next day, perhaps we were only invited to 6 but could choose 6, we'd take them all, right?

Is my memory fuzzy? It just feels backwards from what I can recall (granted that was many moons and margaritas ago).

Okay, now I'm a little confused. First, we know about the hours of tears. Just check out UGADad's post - some of those tears are on our side. Don't forget - the alumnae and actives have to prepare for those 11 parties in one day, attend the parties, and then try to trim down their lists of beautiful, talented girls.

And no, I don't know of these "brainless, rude reasons". Do elaborate. I don't know to which sorority you belong, but I can assure you, without going into membership selection, that "brainless and rude" reasons wouldn't fly. "Wicked"? That's a loaded word - do you know of a single reason why your daughter was cut from a house? And when your daughter was presented with her list of houses that extended invitations to her, did the ones who cut her write rude comments on it? As she passed the houses who had cut her, did they point and laugh? Somehow, I doubt it. You must remember - just because a pnm feels a connection to a chapter does not mean that the chapter feels that connection with her. It hurts - rejection always does. But it may just be as simple as that - it doesn't mean that the chapter members are brainless, rude or wicked. They may simply have not liked your daughter as much as they liked another pnm.

Seriously, I was very sympathetic to your compassion for those who were cut - but then you started pulling out all these judgements about chapters who cut your daughter - based on what? Your chapter's experience 30 years ago? Your reading of "Pledged"? What?

I'm afraid you are coming off as more concerned about those awful chapters who cut your daughter than in the fact that the vast majority of those going through recruitment found an acceptable home.

Again, where are your suggestions for improvement?

Dear Greek Stress:

As a mom I know the hours of stress and what ifs. As I said in my thread about my rush in the early 70's I went into a house where the girl and I had no interest in each other. Not her fault or mine...it happens. And yes, by day 3 or 4 everyone is exhausted and can say/do things that would not be to their advantage...but everyone is under the same stressful conditions.

And lest you think that I don't know...as a mother....how awful rush can be: The night before Pref my daughter (who just graduated from college and is just fine) was dropped from the house that she wanted to pledge because her Active accidently came out to her. (Told my daughter that she is a lesbian). Since she had been rushed "hard" as they put it in my day (the President/Rush Chairman/best girls and her best friend) were always coming over to say hi...I can't imagine what was said in the meeting by the Active. But it was over. And she moved on. I never said a word about what if to her...just I am so sorry. (And trust me I wanted to say more. :) ) And girls at this age can be brainless/rude....

Greek Stress, I understand you are unhappy because your daughter did not get her first choice. As a mom, we hurt when our children hurt. But this year my daughter was on the other side for the first time and I can assure you, she is not 'wicked'. Your daughter probably got more sleep as a PNM than my daughter did as an active. I am sure she spent many hours fighting for the girls she really wanted to be new members as did all of her sisters. They are trying to do their best, and help make the best decisions for their chapters. They know how your daughter felt. They have been PNMs. They are dealing with as much stress as the PNMs. Read what GeorgiaDad said. He put it perfectly.

Thanks for your constructive and kind words MerryGPhiB

UGADad said it well earlier - it is hard on both sides - perhaps even harder on the other side, particularly at a school the size of UGA.

No one forgets how hard it is. And I will go out on a limb and say that every group does the best they can in this situation, and each group tries to treat each group of PNMs coming in the house the same as if it is the first party of the day.

So, with that... congrats to your daughter for receiving a bid! When it comes down to it, she can join only one sorority. What she chooses to get out of it is now up to her.

Let the celebrations commence! Milledge Avenue and Lumpkin Street will be the center of the universe for many a UGA student tonight.

Depends on the school's system. Some schools allow you to "regret with interest" - so say you have 8 invites, but can only accept 6. RWI allows you to list the other 2, and they have the option of extending you another invite in the next roung - so say the next round you can accept 4, but only have 3. You have the option of accepting an invitation to the chapters who you RWI if they wish to extend an invite to you.

You are most welcome- please know we are all here to help even if sometimes we don't read it that way. It is tough on both sides, I still volunteer for Gamma Phi Beta in recruitment and know that being greek is WONDERFUL and it's not perfect. It is what we make out of it.

Great joys to you and your daughter! :)

Probably...this sort of thing would take a lot of research (as to the best way to do it) and organization...I would guess that UGA Panhellenic would need to come up with a proposal for something like this, based on some solid evidence in which a similar system was tested, perhaps by researchers who study interview techniques...then UGA Panhellenic would need to confer with the nationals and with university lawyers to make sure everything was fair to all parties involved and that all the nationals agreed to it...then they'd have to figure out how to execute it...it's hard enough to match up 1300 PMNs to 180 sisters for 4 rounds of parties, just based on things like hometowns and majors, and also to ensure that the PNMs meet multiple sisters...adding in these questionnaires would require Panhellenic to sort and copy and distribute the questionnaires to the sororites, THEN the sororities would have to go through 1300-1550 questionnaires and match them up with a possible line up of sisters to take them through FOUR rounds of rush...this is a lot of organization, when they also are getting ready with decorations and songs AND just getting ready for class! So I encourage your daughter to get involved with UGA's Panhel...just don't expect this to be an easy fix!

So do we all...

Of course not! But Panhel is working off of the premise that it's better to get it over with than to drag the whole thing out...maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but again, this isn't a quick fix!

I do.

Of course they can be wicked...I can tell horrible tales about sorority recruitment...and so can my mother...and so can my grandmother...this isn't a new thing. There are girls dismissed for terrible reasons...there also are girls dismissed simply because they didn't stand out...and when you are going through a quick recruitment, that is a perfectly good reason to cut someone. As I said before, I agree with you that improvements could be made to help those girls who are charming, lovely, talented, and fun but don't have friends pulling for them inside the house or don't perhaps make the best first impression, because of shyness or whatever...but it is a BIG JOB fixing problems like these, and it doesn't happen overnight...but your daughter can be part of the solution, as can YOU...you say you have experience with the Greek system from 30 years ago...are you an alumna? Can you get in touch with your headquarters and express your concerns and see if they have some sort of task force to study recruitment?

Anyway, you clearly are tired and stressed out, so I don't think there is any point in responding further...I agree with you about most of what you say, but it isn't as if a clear solution is staring us all in the face, but we're just choosing to reject it...

Oh, and many apologies 1) that you felt attacked, and 2) that you felt we didn't provide the solutions you were seeking. We don't have the answers, and we really are sorry for your stress. I hope that you are feeling better at the thought of how much fun your daughter must be having right now!

I think one of the things that make cuts so hard is you never know why you were released and, being human, we usually assume it was something we did or didn't do. In reality it could one of any number of random and impersonal things such as the time of night your name comes up or if the girl who is pushing for you is influential enough to get you through over another member's rush crush. I've seen too many stand out girls get cut and too many "slip throughs" get in not to believe there's an element of the bizarre in the selection process.

Soup, you are not fuzzy. I actually kept my print out cards from rush (seriously!) and looked at them today after we talked. It looks like we got the list of who asked us back before we made our selections. I am not 100% sure though because all I have are the computer cards for each round not my list as well.
I know ruch sucks in so many ways but I'm not sure how to make it any better. It is just a necessary evil (for both sides) in order to continue our great greek system that we all love.

No matter the size of the PNM group, the number of chapters, quota, etc., there will always be a contingency of women who A. don't get their first choice, or B. don't get ANY bids.

In terms of getting one's "first choice" and lamenting that there wasn't enough time for the chapter to get to know your (the general your, not you particularly) fabulous daughter - think about it in the reverse.

What are the standards by which any PNM selects one or two chapters as "her top choices"? Surely there are superficial reasons or limited knowledge that goes into choosing their favorites. I am sure that the Members have just as difficult a decision making THEIR choices. Who one person may see as the perfect PNM, another (or many) may not have had the chance to experience the same. The same thing goes for a girl whom only one has met yet feels strongly about - what if the girl isn't really that chapter's material? Who knows if your daughter really did fit into her first choice? Other than her perceptions, were they really that much of a fit?

Not saying that your daughter does not measure up to the "most beautiful", popular, social group on campus - if that is what her her deam chapter is made of, but how much alike are they really? When it comes down to it, are they similar when it comes to the little things? In my experience, that's what counts!

Before freaking out that your daughter got the shaft by not getting her first choice - and we all agree that NO system is perfect - think about the promise of joy and sisterhood ahead of your daughter. Reality is mostly one's perception.

I hope that your daughter finds happiness in her new home, and that you can allow yourself to be happy that a group really wanted her so badly over maybe hundreds of other girls!

So... where is UGAMomof4? And Greek Stress, would you tell us where your daughter went? We want to be excited for her! Really!

But since this is a thread on winding down (hey, who started this - oh, yeah....me!) , and since, right this minute, we, moms and alums who either have daughters at rush or who worked at rush, are the ones winding down (face it - our girls are either getting a bid, missed a bid, are anxiously waiting to see who shows up to accept the bid, etc.), it is a suitable place to vent ALL!

Greek Stress - you have excellent opinions (and probably are expressing thoughts openly, and honestly, without pre-screening every letter you type, like some of us). Last year, we had UGADad's thread to vent - did anyone else notice how depressingly and astoundingly quiet it was regarding one of the largest recruitment processes in the entire collegiate world? Maybe if we let everyone let it out (like UGADad began for us last year), we'll feel better and not vent to the kids?

Just a thought....an opinion really....maybe just a whisper of an idea..seriously...so sorry....hmmmmmm......

For every application process there MUST be a better way. Take Medical School. The people who are accepted into Medical Schools aren't necessarily the people who will make the best doctors. The process doesn't test for compassion, charisma, and passion. It tests for people who look good on paper: smart, high grades, involved. Why? Surely on something as important as the future health care of the U.S. we'd find a way to test for all these?

Because, with millions of applicants each year, it simply isn't feasible. Yes, it sucks. But the way they currently have works reasonably well. Same thing with formal recruitment. It isn't the hypothetical best. But, it's the best practical form of recruitment with hundreds to thousands of girls going through each year.

Some girls miss out on some great chapters; some chapters miss out on some great girls. This happens even in Informal/COB where you theoretically have more time.

All you can do is make the best of the hand you were dealt. Greek Stress, for you this means to take a step back, be thankful your daughter got a bid at one of the most competitive recruitments in the country, and allow her to fall in love with her Sorority and her Chapter.

I promise you that complaining about how she didn't get her top WILL ruin her sorority experience for her. She'll never get to think about how lucky she is to be a XYZ: all she'll be doing is wishing for ABC. Allow her to enjoy her new sorority.

Hey UGAMomof4

Any news yet???????????

Quote:

I actually kept my print out cards from rush (seriously!)

I heart you for that!!! I have mine too. Punch cards.

I'm waiting to hear about my neighbor and I'm dying. I don't want to call her or her mom but I'm about to pop.

I'll touch on what hasn't been explicitly said. In the past 10 years, it has become very popular, particularly on campuses with large numbers of PNMs and chapters to use the release figure method (RFM). The purpose of the release figure method is to place the maximum number of PNMs. Certain chapters ("popular" ones---ones that a high percentage of PNMs would opt to return to if invited) are forced by the College Panhellenic to cut a high percentage of PNMs after the first round. Other chapters will make the majority of their cuts at different points in recruitment.

I've read recruitment stories from before the RFM was used. It was fairly common for a PNM to be invited to every (or almost every) chapter after the first round. So, of course, the PNM has the power to cut whichever chapters she wants, and usually it's the "low-tier" chapters that get cut in such a situation. Meanwhile, the "popular" chapters are inviting back tons of PNMs that they have no real intention or ability to pledge. Not using RFM on a big campus will usually guarantee a big discrepancy in size among chapters (ie "low tier" chapters don't make quota), and a lot of PNMs who get cut out of options later in recruitment because they opted to cut chapters where they had a realistic shot at a bid (lots of unmatched PNMs). VERY often, women will return to chapters that they didn't like after one or two rounds (ie. would have cut them if allowed) and find that it is the place for them.

Now, about "popular" chapters and their cuts. I will never know how any other chapter does membership selection but my own (and that's in a limited time frame), but I can speculate that because they have to make the biggest cuts after the first round that there isn't always a "reason" or there is a silly reason that you talk yourself into feeling good about because Panhellenic is forcing you to make these drastic cuts. There can be legitimate connection between a PNM and an active, but the PNM is cut simply because they have to make a certain amount of cuts, and there were more PNMs that they liked better for one reason or another. This is a problem that "popular" chapters face: how to find what you are looking for after only one party. They can choose based on whatever criteria they want, but they still must make those cuts.

Also, about suiciding. Your daughter wasn't "forced" to suicide; in fact, she was probably encouraged to list all of her preference chapters. Some campuses also have a "guaranteed matching" policy--if they have at least one preference invite, and rank all preference chapters they attended, Panhellenic will guarantee they will be matched to one of those chapters. If a large number of PNMs suicide, there will be more unmatched women, so it is discouraged. Women who suicide can and do get bids often, but it makes the PNM question, "If it came down to my second or third choice, would I rather have them or not be Greek?"

Even if your daughter feels she would have been a better fit elsewhere, encourage her to try to like her group she is pledging. She won't have a chance to pledge anywhere else until next year anyway. She might just find that she couldn't imagine herself anywhere else. :)

Greek Stress,
I, too, am from greek life of 30 years ago. However I am still involved with AOII as a volunteer so perhaps that is why your daughter's story seems very positive to me when you seem to think her experience was so negative. Things are a LOT different than when we went through "rush" and I, for one, say bring it on. As time goes on and the new release figures take hold, I believe that we will see fewer chapters close due to numbers and more women placed during recruitments.
I disagree that girls are dropped from chapters for brainless, rude reasons. I have been to membership selection for many years and I can tell you that there is much more thought and care put into who is chosen than there ever was when I was a collegiate. The system is so much stronger and stands for so much more than it did in the 70's and 80's that most women from those years wouldn't recognize their own chapters. Moreover, I think they would be proud of what those chapters have become. I urge you to get involved in your own sorority or your daughter's and see for yourself how it is on "this side". It ain't easy. And I wish your daughter all the happiness in the world in her new home. I am sure she will blossom there.

Very good points, AOPintheySky. Just from what I gathered this week as well, they are MUCH more thoughtful and kind than I remember from our days. Flashback....remember "cut sessions" - remember shouts of "top girl!" and "rush her hard!" or the dreaded, and only used in matters of dire necessity because it could blackball someone for life "Questionable Rep!". Cut sessions were brutal...fast forward 30 years and you could hear a pin drop on the upstairs floor when the girls were voting, or it you listened at the doorway of a dining room, not a sound was uttered. The girls are sincerely working hard to do the best job possible. And they take their responsibilities very seriously.

While I can agree with Greek Stress that girls can be "wicked", and brutal and unkind, that is certainly not unique to Greek girls....I learned it from years of working in the educational system....not to mention my teen years and those of my 3 daughters. Painful, true! So, while I am sure it happens, it is on the QT, not out in the open (I believe.)

I'm sure Panhel is trying to bring out the best in all our women.....us included!

Has anyone heard numbers from UGA? I have heard several different figures for quota.

Rush results
 

UGA Sigma Kappa has 61 great new girls. I have the list in my hands now!!!!!!!!!!

UGA
 

Alpha Gam has 63 new members!

Hi! I just got the Pi Phi list emailed to me. 62 beautiful new baby angels!

I heard quota was 58, and the rest are QA's.

You have the list??????
 

How many for Gamma Phi beta??? I know you may need to list them all, I am focused!!!1

Absolutely awesome! Let the celebration begin!:D

I'm a jinx....
 

My rush crushes I wrote recs for-- both went KD! Congrats to KD on getting some awesome girls!

Is the list posted on the Internet somewhere? My husband's cousin went through recruitment and I'm dying to know where she went!!

Haha, I have the same thing every year, but with different groups. It seems to switch from AXO to Pi Phi to AGD, etc. This year so far I have heard from one Pi Phi, one SDT, and one AXO, but I still have a couple of rec girls to go... so who knows which lucky group will get the bulk of my rushees.

One more thing
 

I'm sure your feelings were honest and you shouldn't have to apologize for venting openly on an open board about UGA sorority recritment. Lots of parents have been there and there are lots of reasons to vent about a very difficult process.

I do have one more piece of unsolicited advice for all UGA frreshman parents from someone with very limited but very recent experience: Please tell your daughters to look forward and enjoy their freshman year getting to know lots of people within and outside their sororities, no matter how good or bad they feel right now about recruitment. If they are lucky enough to be in Brumby they are with 900+ freshman girls, several of whom may well be their best friends forever. (I'm sure other dorms are great, too, but there's that limited experience thing.)

UGADaughter went to UGA from out-of-state. By the end of her first semester she had a very close-knit group of about 15 girl friends from the dorm, and she only knew one of them at the beginning of the year. Sure, if they had deferred rush at UGA they probably would have all tried to pledge together somewhere. Now they all love (or at least like) their own sororities or other groups and they have this great, close-knit group, too. Within the group of friends there are 5 sororities and 4 states represented, and at least two of the girls didn’t even go through recruitment and probably never will.

To me the most unfortunate thing about SEC recruitment is that, because it is the week before school even starts, it is the only thing going on and therefore feels like not only the most important thing, but everything. The importance of the “right match” is hugely magnified. It is only natural that the girls and we parents want that first week away from home to go perfectly. I do think it would be better if they were already in school for at least a short period before recruitment, but I also admit that I don’t know how the sisters could balance preparation for recruitment, their school work and their social lives once classes have begun.

Anyway, I am rambling. My point is this can be a wonderful year for the girls no matter how recruitment went, and the opportunities for friendship and rewarding activities are all over the place. They don’t know that yet, but they will. Just let them vent, stay supportive and encourage them to find their place, or all their places, among the many wonderful choices and opportunities they have. Be there for them, but don’t try to “solve” things for them. Stay positive and upbeat and, most likely, things will work out really well.

OK, down off my soapbox.

Congratulations to your daughter! That is awesome!

Does anyone have numbers for all of the houses? I am a total failure at finding this out for myself.

I have the list from my house, but if anyone finds the link of all the houses please post. I am sure I shouldn't post this, but I have a real problem with the UGA Panhel. I sent over 6 e-mails messages this summer asking why the scholarship report for Spring 2008 wasn't posted as the fraternity grades for Spring was posted. I had girls going through rush that wanted to see the grade point averages of the sororities. I NEVER RECEIVED ANY REPLIES BACK which I thought was very unprofessional.

****Happy Dance****

UGA recruitment
 

Whoooaaaa!!!! One of the two girls I wrote a rec for at UGA went Zeta (not sure about the other one yet). I am so excited!!! I've known her since she was in the seventh grade. Been on the phone with her mom for the last hour explaining everything.

Jumping up and down!!!

Tracy :)

They almost never post the spring report until fall has started. I don't know why. I think someone else actually mentioned this on a thread this summer.

UGA also doesn't usually post a list; groups take out ads with new member names in the Red and Black. I am hoping that if everyone made quota they will post one online since all the lists will be similar in length.

Go UGA!! :D

Panhel did post a full list last year.

Darn! I missed it!