Not to totally derail the thread - I remember having a lot of fun in high school, and really enjoying it. I was pretty high up in the class (#6, and our top 7 were seperated by something like .000001 in GPA), was on the baseball team, and really didn't have any enemies. As I've gotten older though, my memories of high school seem less rosy - I'm not exactly sure why that is.

As to high GPAs - my high school didn't get up to 5, but you could have higher than a 4.0 if you took AP courses. I took 6 in high school and ended up with something like a 4.3. It sounded weird when I was putting it on college applications, but I never got asked about it, so I assumed a lot of schools did something similar.

Our valedictorian ended up staying in state, I think he got a free ride. He wanted to be a teacher, got a free education with which to accomplish that goal, and has now been a high school history teacher for a few years. It seems like he's very well liked throughout the school and local educational community, so things worked out exactly how he wanted. The in-state schools are very reasonably priced, although most people end up at UConn. In fact, I'm paying less for 4 years of law school (I'm an evening student) than my undergrad was charging for 1.5 years of tuition when I was there.

Now that I think about it, the post-high school choices of the top 10 in my class were pretty widely varied. There were a few teachers, a couple of med students and law students, and at least one successful commercial and movie actress.

My high school, you could take the easiest classes or the hardest classes and a 4.0 was still a 4.0. However as long as you had at least a 3.0, the state paid the average tuition of all the state run schools. Unfortunately it won't last much longer cause it's running out of money quickly, but if you have a 3.0 its worth about $12,000.

Yes, depending on your major, there is a choice of essays. All very PC and all kind of begging for you to bs your way through it.

Considering you are guaranteed a spot if you are in the top 10%, I doubt very seriously that they pour over them with a fine tooth comb.

For the honors colleges (Plan 2, business honors, etc.) the essays are critical, from what I've heard (don't have a dog in the hunt so can't vouch for sure).

The tuition rate for UT is around $9000 a year for instate, but what they fail to mention is that the cost of living is pretty darn high in Austin - my son is living in a 12 bedroom duplex (6 baths) with a bunch of his pledge brothers next year (I know, it's insane, but what's a mom to do) and the cost of that one stupid room is $795 a month, not including his share of utilities. So, after adding up tuition, rent, food, books, and dues, we will be spending upwards of $30,000/year for our state public.

College costs are getting astronomical - so for you young parents out there - Start saving your pennies:D

For my oldest, he chose UF (we are from Texas, so it's out of state) because it was free. He had always thought that he wanted to be a doctor, so we made a deal with him that we wouldn't touch his college fund, and he would have it to go to med school. Well, one year of all those science courses, and he quickly decided that he would go econ/business route. Good news for him though is that when he graduates next year, he has quite the nest egg to do with what he chooses.

How do you figure this? Are you just comparing In-state vs out-of-state?

In no way does it seem like I got a "discount" from being an in-state student. In fact, I paid more tuition for 1 semester at UTEP then I did for a whole YEAR (3 quarters) at CSUEB.

When I started UTEP back in '03, tuition was around $80 per credit hour. Now this fall its going to be close to $200 per credit hour.

The out-of-state students that come here get pretty good scholarships. I know a girl who came from Michigan (she wasn't an athlete or anything) and got a full scholarship to UTEP, yet many native El Pasoans (who could definitely use some aid money) rarely get aid.

Here we have two tuition rates, one for in-state and one for out-of-state.

I am aware of that, since we do have that here as well. I was just wondering why she said that in-staters get a "discount." That is why I asked if she is just shearly looking at the tuition rates between in-state vs. out-of-state. If that is what she is looking at then, yeah I guess in-staters get a discount.

That's about what I paid each month to live in the dorm at my school, which included sharing the room with a roommate.

The cost of public higher ed. varies greatly from state to state (yearly tuition):

- University of Michigan's tuition varies even according to major, which is interesting and unusual I think. But from the looks of it, 2007 tuition there for in-state averaged around $5,500 (out of state around $16,000),
- University of Washington $6,300 in state; $22,000 out of state
- University of Texas $9,200 in-state full time business undergrad (again it varies according to major); $20,000 out of state
- Ole Miss $5,100 for in-state; $7,300 out of state
- UCLA $5,800 in-state; $25,000 out of state
- Florida State $3,700 in state; $18,000 out of state

Ole Miss looks like a bargain for out-of-staters.

I always heard that about Michigan too. Just curious, Peppy, where did you get your numbers? The numbers I found were much more in line with this: http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/colle...ollege_id=9263 that says instate tuition is more like around 10 grand (and that's not including any room and board -- if your in-state kid wants to live (and eat) on campus, it looks like it could run you $18-19K, minimum)

What's exactly what I was looking at. Plus, even with out-of-state tuition, the top public schools are a bargain compared to comparable private schools! :)

I'm not so sure tuition varies by major, but by school. Some schools within large universities have more fees or different charges.

I got the numbers directly from each school's Web site. For Michigan, the site said it was for a traditional 9-month schedule...no indication it was for just one semester. But it would make sense if the number should be double, because my bf is always telling me how expensive Michigan was for a public school.

Also, as I noted, these costs were just tuition, not meant to be comprehensive costs.

It depends on the private school. Many have big endowments and give generous grants and scholarships. When all was said and done in my case, it only cost me a few thousand extra per year to attend my private school because I wasn't going to get anything from Univ. of Washington.

That was definitely for one semester at Michigan. They aren't real clear about that on their website! Room and board for a double, full year, is around $9000.

I've been making myself well aware of these things as my daughter is starting high school and I'm totally panicking. I hope she keeps that 4.0 going through high school. She has high aspirations, a dad who thinks kids should pay for their own college and a mom who would love to pay but doesn't have that kinda money to spare. She's got to get some good scholarships. Additionally, many of the student loan companies have stopped loaning money to students in this state because our economy is so crappy.

Exact tuition rates by major for Michigan: http://www.umich.edu/~regoff/tuition/full.html

They do say "full term" which would be fall or winter vs. half terms (spring/summer)

ETA: Our other 'flagship' school, Michigan State, is a bit more affordable at about $4000 a term.

But not every student receives that sort of financial aid....at my undergrad, which is private and pretty freaking selective, only about 40% of freshmen received any sort of grant. For the 60% who don't qualify for aid, yes, a public school--no matter which one--is a bargain. Also, keep in mind that the top private schools only offer scholarships to those who NEED the money--ie, no merit scholarships. :)

http://www.utexas.edu/business/accou...tf_flatsem.pdf

Just for grins, I looked up this on the UT website to see all the different tuition rates.

It is done by college within UT, with business being the highest. The thing I found interesting is that they have different measures of "non-resident" rates - Early, Intermediate, and New based on when you matriculated (before 2004, between 2004 and 2006, and after summer 2006).

The highest rate, the "new nonresident", is a whopping $15,385 PER SEMESTER for the business school!!!! YIKES!!! That is just for tuition, doesn't include any expenses like room and board. So, $30,770.00 per year for tuition - might as well be private...

Makes me wonder, who, in their right mind, would come to UT from out of state!

And it also depends on the student as well. Because when I applied to Pepperdine (it was my # 1 school) the scholarships that they had given me (which they said were "preliminary" because they hadn't had all my parents finanical information) were taken away because A) according to them I lied on the financial aid forms (which i didnt) and B) my parents made too much money for me to receive those "scholarships."

My mom works as a teacher, and my dad works for the post office---i'm not sure how they make "too much money" but whatever.

I'm curious, what did they say you lied about??

On some of the financial aid paperwork I received I was asked to list every person that my parents support financially. Well at the time that I was a senior in HS, my parents were supporting my brother (who was significantly older than me). He hadn't finished college, and so after a while in the "job force" he decided to go back and get his nursing degree. Well, my parents were paying for his schooling, and he was living at home. I called up Pepperdine to see if it was ok to list him, and the lady said that was fine, that as long as my parents supported 1/2 of his financial obligations that he could be listed.

So i put him on the list. About 3 weeks later, all my "scholarships" that I had received (that was going to cover more than 1/2 of my freshman year's tuition) were taken away. According to whoever was in charge, there was no feasible way that a early 30-year old man could be supported by his family. They told us point-blank that I lied so that I could get some financial aid money because they've never heard of people going back to college to get a Bachelors.

I'm sorry that doesn't happen in Malibu, but a mostly poor, largely Hispanic community (with many first generation US families), it happens.

My mom talked to the Dean of Seaver College, and he wrote her a note pretty much saying how we were SOL and for me to try again next year.

Wow, I'm surprised to hear you were treated that way, and have to believe there was some sort of misunderstanding. How long ago was this? My family has always been very impressed with the way the school conducts itself (financial aid office in particular) - it's a kind, classy place. The school was always very upfront with me and everyone else I knew about the financial aid process and they definitely understood the MANY types of families that apply to the school. BTW, only a few of the students are from Malibu, so that's a bit of a cheap shot you took; half aren't even from the state of California (students come from all states and more than 60 countries), and 9% are hispanic (36% of students are minorities). And about 75% of the students receive financial aid. Pepp was very generous to all of my friends there, and none of us were poor or extremely wealthy. I knew very few people there that did not receive some type of grant or scholarship. That school is really expensive, and they know it; therefore they try hard to make the school "doable" for the students they admit.

But getting back on topic, scholarships are different than grants. Scholarships usually are awarded based on merit or other qualifications; grants can be offered for any reason, but they're usually need-based. Parents need to realize this difference; some parents freak out when Pepperdine tells them that only a small portion of the students get merit scholarships. If they listened, they'd hear that the majority of students get grants, which are basically the same thing when all is said and done. It's money you don't have to pay back!

Granted, this was a long time ago, but a friend of mine in OT school was 30 and divorced, which was much less common back in the mid-80's. Non-traditional students were a relatively new phenomenon. When she filed for financial aid they wanted her parents financial information. She was outraged. She'd been on her own since she was 20 but they wanted to base her financial aid on her parents' income? Nuts.

When I was talking to a co-worker about financial aid issues, since my daughter has Ivy League aspirations, she said it this way "FAFSA says you can contribute a certain amount no matter what the cost of the school is" and I realized she was right. Of course, my daughter could end up with tons of debt in student loans, but if she becomes the next JK Rowling (as she hopes to), that shouldn't be a problem.. lol.

It was back in 2003.

I worked financial aid for years and people over a certain age are considered independents. So, unless the person was legally a dependent, our federal and financial aid investigations would render you ineligible to officially claim that your parents are supporting a 30 year old. We would've thought you were lying for aid, too, but the outcome would be the same even if we thought you were telling the truth.

That sucks because there are different circumstances but the regulations exist for a reason. There are exceptions to the laws and regulations but a 30 year old brother who decided to go back to school, but would otherwise be an independent, doesn't qualify as one. If he was a medical student who had to report his parents' information for certain institutions there may have been a way around the regulation (at some insitutions).

Looks like our would-be valedictorian obtained a scholarship from UT in the amount of $13,000 a year for four years.

Not bad.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...p.32e2e77.html

If your daughter is serious about going to an Ivy, most of them have changed their financial aid policies where students from families making below a certain amount (forget what it is offhand, but it's a pretty average middle to upper-middle class 2-family income) don't have loans as part of their aid packages. She's still a few years off from college, so more of their peer institutions will probably step up to the plate by then.

I've been following that trend carefully. I think it will also make it that much harder to get into an Ivy because of those policies because more people will realize that an Ivy is financially available, so I'm trying to prepare her and convince her that University of Michigan is NOT below her and is still a highly respected institution that would prepare her for a career in writing/journalism... LOL. I only know of one kid ever from our school district who has been admitted to an Ivy and, while I don't want to dash her dreams, I don't want her being grossly disappointed if she has to "settle" for Michigan :rolleyes: (besides, there are no Alpha Gam chapters at any of the Ivy's currently and we do have a chapter with a big beautiful house at Michigan!) Seriously, she did become enamored with Ann Arbor when we went there for a book signing, so she'll probably be fine with going to Michigan if she doesn't make it into an Ivy. She was fascinated with the coffee shops filled with students reading and doing their homework. She was completely thrilled when she saw bulletin boards filled with fliers for poetry reading sessions, etc. A literary geek, that's what she is.

She played (band) at the high school graduation last night and said that all 3 valedictorians gave speeches. (getting back on topic) I don't see why any district would feel they had to have only one valedictorian in this day and age.

DANG - that girl is one bright cookie!!!

The scholarship that she won was not for being the val, it is for that PLUS all the other things that she brought to the table. Being one of 6 students to win this scholarship is a HUGE honor, expecially since there are thousands of incoming freshmen at UT every year. In her case - forget about the one year scholarship they give to some vals - she won the jackpot!!!


Plus, according to the article, she had these other offers to boot -


Good for her!!! Now where can my kids sign up?:p

Yeah, I think it's age 25 maybe, just like with a lot of insurance policies.

Yeah that is what I had figured in the first place, but I was told to ask anyways. So when I called up the university, I make it crystal clear the situation. I mean being a HS senior, I was unaware of how financial aid worked. I asked to speak to the director and I assumed that is who they had transferred me to, so I pretty much took their word as truth. Looking back on it, I wish I had applied at more places, then I would have had more schools (more financially affordable schools) to fall back on.

Also, I talked to my mom about this yesterday and she told me that in the letter the Dean had sent, he said that even if I just put myself down, that the 'scholarships' would have been taken away from me anyways because my parents make too much money. FYI: My mom works as a teacher and my dad works in maintenance at the Post Office. They struggle to stay financially afloat, but suuure they are able to pay $38,000+ a year.

Well, I can tell you flat-out that's not true. Pepp's scholarships are mostly merit based...or for kids from the Church of Christ. The rest of the gift aid is grant aid, which is based on financial need AND merit. But you should think about this: though your parents may not be well off, they probably are compared to many other students that come from a single parent household.

I'm not sure why the Dean of Seaver would be getting involved in financial aid matters, anyway; that's not his job at all. The financial aid office has counselors assigned to students and prospective students. I don't know who you were transferred to when you called, and I don't know all the specifics of your case, but I can tell you that your experience is a 180 from what I experienced as a prospective student and student. True story: my mom was so appreciative of my financial aid counselor that she brought her a plant on Family Weekend my freshman year. And just the other day she asked me if I knew if she still worked there!

Michigan is a great school, and it would set her up for a great career, or admission to a fantastic grad school if that's her plan. BUT...as far as most Ivies go, she's at a distinct advantage in that she's from the middle of the country, and not from the Northeast Megapolis or Coastal California. I interview kids for my undergrad, and it's really tough...if you're from NYC and half the kids in your graduating class are applying to your dream school.

Munchkin is absolutely correct. Schools want geographic diversity as well as ethnic and socioeconomic diversity. I interview DC area prospectives for my alma mater. These kids' resumes are amazing. My sibling is about to move to the midAtlantic region from the Upper Peninsula. This will make my sib's kid's Dartmouth dream so much more difficult. However, the kids will now have a much vaster choice of AP classes, ECs, etc than at the UP high school. It will just be tougher to stand out amongst the competition in our area.


In terms of merit-based scholarships, look at colleges' 25-75 ranges. If your child has scores that supercede the 75 percentile scores for the SAT/ACT, that is an initial indicator that s/he may be in the running for merit aid at that school. Be aware that not all schools offer merit-based scholarships. Most of the top 20 research unis and the top 10 LACs only offer need-based as they do not need to entice top students with merit $.

That being said, if your family DOES qualify for FA and the aid package at one school is less generous than another in terms of how they meet the COA need, you can show schools best offers from other schools and see if they can match it.

^^^When I was choosing between Hampshire College and Georgetown, I really really hoped Hampshire could match Georgetown's aid.

They were virtually identical, except GU had a special grant for DC residents that replaced my need for work-study. Hampshire didn't/couldn't cough up the 5 Gs.... Georgetown it was.

I wouldn't trade it for anything, but I'll always wonder.

ETA: GU didn't really have merit-based aid, but did have these super-secret grants that the needy could use to replace loans and work-study with grants.

This is a little off-topic, but when you interview, do you see that certain kids just don't stand out, and you can almost predict what ECs they're going to have, what they major in, etc? I've only been interviewing for a few years now, but I can almost predict which ones are going to get in, and which ones aren't.

Again off-topic...did you find the Alexandra Robbins book to be pretty true of what it's like for kids at top DC schools? It's definitely true of my hometown kids, but nowhere near what it's like for these NYC kids. Scary! Unless I have a lot of money, I don't think I can raise my kids in NYC and expect them to follow in my footsteps.

I see many cases of grand slam scores (800s on all sections of SAT and the SAT II subject exams), perfect GPAs loaded with APs in the transcripts. CMU is somewhat techy so instead of getting the kids doing community service in 3rd World countries, we get the kids who are holding patents in their names for some piece of hardware/software they developed. The student who is applying to CFA is many times already a professional performer with the appropriate licensure. Because CMU's individual schools are so different, the applicants are very different. The commonality is that many have already achieved something in their intended field of study. I have to keep that in the forefront of my mind. The applicant has to apply to a college within the university. They can't choose all the colleges, but they can choose more than one. You see a lot of crossover with our engineering school and CS school.

Do you interview mostly Westchester kids? How do Stuyvesant and Bronx High School of Science do as opposed to kids from non-magnet publics vs. the kids from Dalton et. al.? My Manhattan cousins went to boarding school in New England. I think I would do the same for my kids if I lived in NYC and had the financial means to do so.

Although I thought Robbins was way off the mark with her sorority book, she did seem to hit the nail on the head with The Overachievers. I recognized a lot of students and their parents in that book. Acceptance by Susan Coll is a fictional account of a couple of students from a Montgomery County high school. It's somewhat amusing and fairly accurate despite it being fiction.

This financial aid and scholarships business is very tricky. It's almost a matter of "who you know" and how much information you have access to.

It is annoying when an official says something inaccurate and then you must bear the cost of believing the person knew what she/he was talking about.