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-   -   Fifty things you didn't know about John McCain (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=96668)

nate2512 05-29-2008 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659310)
Just answering you.;)
You're changing topics again cause I just pummeled your last thread derailment.

jon1856 05-29-2008 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate2512 (Post 1659315)
You're changing topics again cause I just pummeled your last thread derailment.
No-but your doing a bang up job in derailing this thread and two others tonight.

nate2512 05-29-2008 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659319)
No-but your doing a bang up job in derailing this thread and another tonight.
The other one, I'll take credit for. This one was all you.

KSig RC 05-29-2008 12:25 AM
John -

Once again, your post provides no substance beyond a citation. What's your point?

Considering that the overwhelming majority of Presidents have had some sort of military background (the fact that all were during war time is selection bias; the overwhelming majority of ALL military personnel served during those times, and were discharged without becoming "career") should be enough to end your insanely off-topic aside.

Pacifism is fine; anti-war stances are certainly fine. Interjecting that here seems . . . odd.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659248)
No.

Physical and mental health evals have cleared him for all we know.
...for all we KNOW....

and we DO KNOW how much the gov't likes to hide shyte like that until 'later'.

KSigkid 05-29-2008 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659270)
And as pointed out, only 6 were career. The rest were time of war. And look at the time frames covered by most of those and the type of war.
In current day pool of candidates, one will more likely see a MBA than a career military, let alone extended service time.
And just being in a military branch, does not of and by itself give nor provide great enlightenment to all knowledge.
My Uncle more of less agrees with General Sherman-told me awhile ago that all war does is waste good men.

Me,if one was going to use only one rule, I would much rather see a very smart, sharp business person. And have them rely on Professional Military for advise.

And out of your 31, how many did you know served?
And how many where in combat?
How many said anything in great detail about it?
Did you know that Ford saved his carrier?
LBJ was a staff officer who Johnson's biographer, Robert Caro, stated, "The most you can say about Lyndon Johnson and his Silver Star is that it is surely one of the most undeserved Silver Stars in history. Because if you accept everything that he said, he was still in action for no more than 13 minutes and only as an observer. Men who flew many missions, brave men, never got a Silver Star."[15]
You're missing the point here. People are saying that they look at military experience (note, "experience" does not equal "professional military") as a qualification - not "the" qualification. They're saying they look at it as part of the bigger picture, not as the whole picture.

jon1856 05-29-2008 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1659467)
You're missing the point here. People are saying that they look at military experience (note, "experience" does not equal "professional military") as a qualification - not "the" qualification. They're saying they look at it as part of the bigger picture, not as the whole picture.
I do not think that I am.
If not a career, just what would four years of military experience provide a person beyond other life, work and business experiences?
Just look at our current President; what did his time in service do for him?

I would not call military service an important part of a candidate's resume; just one part of it.

shinerbock 05-29-2008 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659470)
I do not think that I am.
If not a career, just what would four years of military experience provide a person beyond other life, work and business experiences?
Just look at our current President; what did his time in service do for him?

I would not call military service an important part of a candidate's resume; just one part of it.
I would call it important. I would call law or medical school important. Not simply because they provide you with career opportunities, but because it changes the way you interact with other people, it changes how you think about situations.

As someone without first hand military experience, I could certainly be wrong, but I strongly suspect for many, serving alters life in a large way. I don't think it is the overriding factor, but I do think it is significant.

AlphaFrog 05-29-2008 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659470)
I do not think that I am.
If not a career, just what would four years of military experience provide a person beyond other life, work and business experiences?
Just look at our current President; what did his time in service do for him?

I would not call military service an important part of a candidate's resume; just one part of it.
You're right. Four years of experience in something doesn't mean anything. In fact, college should be a career choice. What can one possibly learn in four years? Especially if you end up as a candidate for a job that include jobduties in your field of study.

Do you see how ridculous your argument is?

I don't get why y'all don't understand that putting 4 years experience in an aspect of a job is beneficial for a candidate - regardless of whether it's 4 years med school for a doctor or 4 years military experience for Commander-in-Chief. We get that it's not the ONLY requirement, and that it's not important to everyone, but y'all are acting like people are crazy for even considering it when placing their vote.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 1659480)
but y'all are acting like people are crazy for even considering it when placing their vote.

They are crazy if that is THE ONLY thing they consider when voting.

A person's military record should not be the ONLY thing that sells them on especially when they have more recent history serving in government that one should really be looking at to determine if they should want to vote for them.

shinerbock 05-29-2008 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659484)
They are crazy if that is THE ONLY thing they consider when voting.

A person's military record should not be the ONLY thing that sells them on especially when they have more recent history serving in government that one should really be looking at to determine if they should want to vote for them.
You're right, voting based solely on military experience is stupid. Just like voting based entirely on gender, race or religion is stupid.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1659486)
You're right, voting based solely on military experience is stupid. Just like voting based entirely on gender, race or religion is stupid.
EXACTLY!

This is why in some of you guys' eyes I have been dismissive about his military record.

damn near every president that has served has one....

Don't sell me on what he has done FOR our country in the military, that's what he got signed up for .....sell me on what he has done TO the country in the government...that is what OTHER PEOPLE voted for him to do!

AlphaFrog 05-29-2008 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659484)
They are crazy if that is THE ONLY thing they consider when voting.

A person's military record should not be the ONLY thing that sells them on especially when they have more recent history serving in government that one should really be looking at to determine if they should want to vote for them.
Yes, like I said, it's not the only thing. But you don't get to tell other people at to base their vote on. If I want to vote for the candidate with the whitest teeth, I have every right to do so. After all, a new study shows a link between cancer and gum health, and many people would find a president with cancer to be a detriment.

And, even if we're going with congressional experience, as you say we should all do, McCain's got umpteen more years than Obama in that area of his resume as well.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 1659495)

And, even if we're going with congressional experience, as you say we should all do, McCain's got umpteen more years than Obama in that area of his resume as well.
which comes down to the next question: what has he done with those umpteen years?

If it was that simple, then we all should be voting for McCain.

It kind of goes back to an earlier statement:

I will paraphrase: just because you have so much of 'something' doesn't necessarily mean that you are the most qualified.

Let me also add with that, it also doesn't mean that people will still 'like' you enough to pick you either, regardless of your job record.

shinerbock 05-29-2008 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659516)
which comes down to the next question: what has he done with those umpteen years?

If it was that simple, then we all should be voting for McCain.

It kind of goes back to an earlier statement:

I will paraphrase: just because you have so much of 'something' doesn't necessarily mean that you are the most qualified.

Let me also add with that, it also doesn't mean that people will still 'like' you enough to pick you either, regardless of your job record.
It is that simple.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1659518)
It is that simple.
not hardly

shinerbock 05-29-2008 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659526)
not hardly
Of course it is. I mean, if you like America and babies and baseball and freedom, you SHOULD vote for McCain. I know you still might not, but clearly you should.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1659527)
Of course it is. I mean, if you like America and babies and baseball and freedom, you SHOULD vote for McCain. I know you still might not, but clearly you should.
I don't agree with some of his policies...that's why I won't.

shinerbock 05-29-2008 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659531)
I don't agree with some of his policies...that's why I won't.
I know...like freedom and Jesus and sunshine.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1659533)
I know...like freedom and Jesus and sunshine.
Now you're just trying to be facetious.

Freedom is never free

Some don't believe in Jesus

and somewhere in the world the sun always rises....

Munchkin03 05-29-2008 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1659527)
Of course it is. I mean, if you like America and babies and baseball and freedom, you SHOULD vote for McCain. I know you still might not, but clearly you should.
Apple pie. Don't forget the apple pie.

AGDee 05-29-2008 01:12 PM
It's baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet... (am I dating myself with that commercial?)

nate2512 05-29-2008 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659536)
Freedom is never free
According to Jon it apparently is. Since war is hell we should just not go to war anymore.

Also, when Congress voted on the torture bill, who was a very big advocate against it because he had been in the situation, and drawing on his own experiences in the military voted against it. So yes, it does play a vital part in how he feels about some of military, war, and veteran policies and those are things that should not be overlooked. The military part is not all war.

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659491)
damn near every president that has served has one....
I don't know the answer to this question:

How many presidents were POWs or whatever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659491)
Don't sell me on what he has done FOR our country in the military, that's what he got signed up for .....sell me on what he has done TO the country in the government...that is what OTHER PEOPLE voted for him to do!
Just remember this sound logic when you celebrate something Obama has done that has absolutely nothing to do with politics, his platform, and what he will or will not do if in office. :)

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659633)
I don't know the answer to this question:

How many presidents were POWs or whatever?
John McCain isn't POTUS yet so let's not jump the gun...

Enough presidents however have seen combat.

KSigkid 05-29-2008 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659633)
Just remember this sound logic when you celebrate something Obama has done that has absolutely nothing to do with politics, his platform, and what he will or will not do if in office. :)
Agreed - going on that logic, Obama's law school and academic credentials should be similarly discounted.

As to past presidents being POWs; the only one I can think of who comes close is Washington, who I believe was captured during the French and Indian War. Otherwise, I don't think another President was a prisoner during wartime.

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659651)
John McCain isn't POTUS yet so let's not jump the gun...
NO SHIT? :eek: You're the one who said "damn near every PRESIDENT that has served has one."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659651)
Enough presidents however have seen combat.
Okay...is this your way of saying that McCain's military experience is unique as far as most presidential candidates and POTUS are concerned?

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1659659)
Agreed - going on that logic, Obama's law school and academic credentials should be similarly discounted.

As to past presidents being POWs; the only one I can think of who comes close is Washington, who I believe was captured during the French and Indian War. Otherwise, I don't think another President was a prisoner during wartime.
Exactly--as far as I'm concerned every political and nonpolitical feat from every candidate should be received equally. Because, as far as I'm concerned, every candidate has equal potential to be a great POTUS or a sucky POTUS. If McCain saying "g**k" can turn some voters off then McCain getting his ass whooped in war can turn some voters on.

Thanks for the info on Washington.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659660)
NO SHIT? :eek: You're the one who said "damn near every PRESIDENT that has served has one."



Okay...is this your way of saying that McCain's military experience is unique as far as most presidential candidates and POTUS are concerned?
"....has one."

Military Record ...not POW.

As for McCain....

Yes and no...

Unique in that (should he become POTUS) he would be the only pres that served in Vietnam that was a POW

And no because of what I stated earlier.

jon1856 05-29-2008 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856 (Post 1659304)
General Sherman: "
On June 19, 1879, Sherman delivered his famous "War Is Hell" speech to the graduating class of the Michigan Military Academy and to the gathered crowd of more than 10,000: "There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."[76]"
And BTB, LBJ used another Sherman statement when he declared that he would not run for re-election.
General Sherman may I introduce you to nate2512 ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate2512 (Post 1659621)
According to Jon it apparently is. Since war is hell we should just not go to war anymore.

Also, when Congress voted on the torture bill, who was a very big advocate against it because he had been in the situation, and drawing on his own experiences in the military voted against it. So yes, it does play a vital part in how he feels about some of military, war, and veteran policies and those are things that should not be overlooked. The military part is not all war.
This thread is going in so many directions, that it is getting hard to follow any one thread of it. And yes, Nate and I are partially responsible for some of that.

I understand many posters have said that Military Service, while important, many not be the absolute benchmark.

I am ok with that POV/HO.

I still do not understand just at what level it can make a difference.
If one spends 4 years on a DD as a seaman, what special imprint/knowledge does that provide to that one person?
If one spends a few years in ANG, and stays at home and sees no combat, what special imprint/knowledge does that provide?

A leader learns and builds their skills in many ways.
Think of a platoon leaders as business manager.

And yes, I do understand the military a little bit.
I have family and friends who served. And I spent a great deal of time on Monday with several active duty and veterans. And I thanked each and everyone of them.

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659693)
Unique in that (should he become POTUS) he would be the only pres that served in Vietnam that was a POW

As opposed to "unique" because he'll be the only POTUS who became a Vietnamese opera singer soon after capture? :rolleyes:

ETA: I know that you said that a lot of POTUS have military service. I'm saying that McCain's service is still unique and that's one of the things that sets him apart.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659699)
As opposed to "unique" because he'll be the only POTUS who became a Vietnamese opera singer soon after capture? :rolleyes:
nah...I think Kerry was somewhere up for that one too...but he didn't win.

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659703)
nah...I think Kerry was somewhere up for that one too...but he didn't win.
Okay...so as this thread draws to an end...I just wanted you to know that you're still full of isht. :)

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659706)
Okay...so as this thread draws to an end...I just wanted you to know that you're still full of isht. :)
same to you m'dear...same to you....you still have a warm spot in my heart...




no...






...that's just gas...

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659708)
same to you m'dear...same to you....you still have a warm spot in my heart...




no...






...that's just gas...
Heart gas = poor diet

Eat better + exercise = live longer

nate2512 05-29-2008 03:50 PM
Jon, I've still yet to see any evidence of the Sherman quote that relates to anything I've said.

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659736)
Heart gas = poor diet

Eat better + exercise = live longer
ok...fine...cook for me.

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659770)
ok...fine...cook for me.
You aren't privileged enough for the privilege. ;)

DaemonSeid 05-29-2008 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1659775)
You aren't privileged enough for the privilege. ;)
I'll rub the bunions on your feet

DSTCHAOS 05-29-2008 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1659879)
I'll rub the bunions on your feet
I don't have those.

But if I did, someone else is privileged enough for that privilege. ;)


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