They don't have to educate themselves because it ultimately doesn't matter if they get it. :) They just need to stop inserting their false expertise.

You mean I am not an expert on South America because of my Brazilian, Venezualan, and Argentinian friends. :confused: No wonder those LAS departments wouldn't hire me. :o

hehe...you just need to strengthen that resume`!

It's like the white people who say racism is dead because "I have black friends who say they never feel racism. In fact, I don't even see them as black!"

^^I guess. :) But unlike some folks I know, I want my CV to only represent my actual expertise.

:p Agreed. My CV doesn't list my friendships as field research or professional development.

This statement proves that you absolutely do not know what you're talking about. We know with 100% certainty that these women were DELIBERATELY infringing on TNX. I find it a bit presumptuous that you would make this statement without ever asking the members of TNX on this board why their response was what it was.

Yet another instance of you not knowing what you're talking about. Not all NPHC orgs use the term. And because of how our process is, that is what they are, aspirants.

I agree with you that you can't make the assumption. But when a former pledge/interest/interest group becomes the founder of a new GLO that "shares" all/parts of the pre-exisiting organization's surface characterisitics, then one doesn't need a good deal of critical thinking skills to see what is going on. Those familiar with the pre-exisiting orgs and their "identity" can pick up things a lot quicker than those that aren't.

People always seem to have some "fact" to back up their inane comments.

And, daggone, soror. I'mma get outta your way. :D

lol...

Prove it.

At this point you'll generally sulk off and call me an idiot with no way to back it up. For you to believe that black Americans with absolutely no connection to Africa (...how long's it been...7 generations?) has commonalities in terms of personality or otherwise (besides being human) you would have to believe in nature over nurture. That you are born with innate tendencies that span cultural lines. If you believe that, then you're laughable to begin with. I have absolutely no connections with my German/English/French/Dutch relatives and many of my ancestors came to this country long after yours likely did.

Your ability to manipulate what I said is mindboggling. It's a selective observation which provides an example to a much grander observation.

*smack*

To begin with, many if not most "African"-Americans have no idea what country they came from. Even further, it wouldn't matter because the country was not important because it only reflected colonial boundaries and not tribal boundaries. Tribal boundaries are a far more important way of discovering your ancestors histories because it would lead you to what sort of foods they ate and the religions they practiced. Furthermore, Italian-Americans who are proud of their heritage tend to be recent immigrants (early 1900's), just a few generations removed from their homeland. Whereas "African"-Americans are what...seven generations removed? More? My Grandma regularly spoke German in the house. Of what connection do I have to Germany? I've never lived there. My German is terrible.

One point of commonality would be the experience as African descended people in a world that is still very much governed by notions of white supremacy, even as that notion has been disproved again and again. While that experience is not exactly the same the world over, it creates similar modes of oppression that engender similar sorts of resistance creating a sense of commonality and global community.

Also, to believe that just because Africans were brought forcibly to this continent that they left behind all things that made them culturally unique as Africans is generally wrong-headed. Aspects of African culture, in the form of religion, cuisine, familial relations and ways of thinking about family, among others traveled with the Africans on those ships. Here, those cultural practices continued, while being influenced both by indigenous and Euramerican cultural practices (and in some places Asian as well--though I am less versed in those intersections) to create aspects of African American culture, which continue to thrive today.

I could pull out some citations for you, but you would probably still tell me that my lived experience along with my expertise in these areas don't hold water.

did i just get e-smacked?!

So youre saying, for all i know, i may not necessarily BE from Africa. Since i can't trace it and all... Shoot, we may be related. I could be German, from many generations back. What you think EW?

On a serious note (since i believe you want us to take you as such), there are some African-Americans that identify as "Black" for reasons you mentioned above. However, to deny ANY connections between Black people today (and that's not just here in America, but Blacks everywhere) and those of Africa IS a smack in the face. Our foods and religions, the way we dress, talk, dance, etc CAN be traced to different regions of Africa. Of course there is just as much of those cultural aspects that come from being in America, but there is a reason why the way I would identify with being American would differ with your reasons for identifying with being American.

ETA: Little32 pretty much said what I wanted to say, a little more eloquently of course.

*Blushes* Gee, thanks. :)

You don't feel like you have any connections to Europe and your European heritage? You don't see how it impacts you and your life here and now?

From what you've said on this board (that you've been to Germany, that your family are fairly recent immigrants), that seems really hard for me to understand. Maybe it's just a personal thing.

No and aren't you the guy who always has something to say when I discuss race, even going so far as to ask if I really believe race exists? Yeah, your experience is selective observation at best.

And I have nothing to "prove" to someone who thinks that a selective observation of a few black German "friends" (it wasn't like you were conducting qualitative research and directed observation, btw) for almost a year trumps the generations of African diasporic relations, historical and biographical accounts, alliances, organizations and pan-African summits, and qualitative and quantitative research.

I shall treat you just like anyone else who has had an experience but has nothing else to go based on: Thank you for sharing, now run along before you miss the fraternity tiers discussions that require your knowledge and expertise.

He's not the citations type. Save them for real discourse.

Too Funny!
 

This guy has gone from being annoying to being downright comical. I'm finding it quite funny now that someone on the outside looking in would tell a group of people that they have no connection to their heritage (just because he doesn't feel a connection to his) despite the fact that he is not and could not live their cultural experiences. And he continues to go on and on which suggests that he REALLY believes what he's so very WRONG WRONG WRONG about.

At first I thought he was just trying to be annoying but now I think he really does THINK he knows what he's talking about. Wow. Just when you thought you'd heard it all, gc is there to entertain.

Let's move on though because people like Elephant Walk love to wallow in ignorance. The whole point in networking with other people (via the internet or elsewhere) is to get varying perspectives, viewpoints, and testimonies, not to define things (especially an entire group of people) by a few examples in your personal life.

You don't seem to get it. Heritage is not important. It doesn't tell you where you're from and it sure as hell doesn't tell you where your going. It simply tells you your geneolgy. Which is a very unimportant, masturbatory exercise.

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality. The black Haitians practice Voodoo as it came over from Africa. Do you practice voodoo? That was a religion. Perhaps, your christian? Doesn't sound too African to me (perhaps northeast Africa, but few of the American ancestors originated from there...and even then, that's Coptic Christian). The blacks across Europe don't seem to feel the same inferiority complex of whites as blacks in America. Hell, they were more scared of their own race slaughtering or enslaving them, which is why they left that beautiful hellhole.

I would love to see some evidence of African traditions as practiced across the world. That is, they happen in the United States/Europe/China/South America. I simply don't think you'll find it.

Either discuss LGLO/MCGLOs following NPHC practices or go back to discussing IFC tiers in another thread.

lol...burn!!!

GAME OVER MAN!!! GAME OVER!!!

I agree - let's be real.

c'mon now...you get the point...stop protesting just to protest. ;)

ETA: I've always disliked the "Delta Diva" association for some reason (I'm not annoyed by other "diva" references, including its origin). But I know that many people who are familiar with the NPHC would think DST rather than Tri-Delt if they saw "Delta Diva" or "Divastating Delta" username. Just like there's a Kappa on here named G-Kue 1911 (*waving*) and ladygreek commented on how organizationally ambiguous his username his. If it was G-Que 1911, which there is an Omega who goes by that, he'd possibly be an Omega as far as we're concerned.

All that is neither here nor there because we were never talking about policing people as if opinions translate to anything more than opinions. We're talking about commonly held associations. I still agree with you and rhoyaltempest about INNNNNNNNcorporated, despite what preciousjeni says. :p

When I see orgs align their traditions and rituals towards NPHC, it could means a couple of things.

1) They see the similarities in why NPHC was founded with their own beliefs for why their own organizations need to be founded (i.e. LTA was founded to provide support for the increasing # of latinas in higher education and to help counter the traditional roles commonly accepted)

2) They wanted to be more community-based driven, in providing and addressing specific needs of a specific community (in general NPHC are geared towards Afrian American/Black communities, while IFC/NPC aren't really geared towards a specifc community, maybe Jewish, but most were from music groups or other book groups, etc)


3) They received help from NPHC to be founded (i.e. SLB, LUL)

4) Conforming to the current social Greek communities at their school. They wanted to be more similar to NPHC than say a business fraternity. They were more likely to be accepted if their traditions and rituals were something that was familiar to NPHC orgs. Furthermore, a lot of the councils have specific requirements related to NPHC activities (for example, participating in a greek step show, or else you pay a fine or another penalty)

5) NPHC traditions are great recruitment tools.

6) Documentation - a lot of times before internet, it is hard to know who to credit for what ritual. Maybe they saw an older LGLO or MCGLO do it, and thought it relevant as well to their own.

7) some of their members started to do it, and it caught on and became a ritual/tradition.

Personally, I hope many of the organizations that have recently been founded have done thorough research. I know for us personally, back in the 80s when we started to socialize more with NPHC and saw them stepping and strolling, we researched the purpose of them and had to decide if those traditions would be relevant for our organization's mission/identity/goals, and why or why not. I feel our reasons justified, but for others, it could be different, and everyone has a different perspective, so I respect thatb(or at least try to).

yikes

I was responding to your comment here:

Organizations develop traditions on top of other traditions, as I mentioned in the incorporated thread. Every Greek organization in this country has borrowed from a previously founded organization, INCLUDING Theta Nu Xi. I do not dispute that. However, that's very different from "stealing" an organization-specific tradition; by that I mean going in and saying, "I like that from Alpha Sigma Tau and I like that from Delta Sigma Theta" as we all have our unique identities. If you look at the way we carry out Greek traditions, you will find that there are differences from the way that NPCs, BGLOs, LGLOs, etc. do things. My organization participates in Greek traditions, but we do not "steal" other organizations' identities.

And, I'll say this here too...my organization is composed of women who were brought up in various Greek traditions. They carry these traditions into their membership in Theta Nu Xi. That is the nature of a multicultural sorority.

Whoa! Where have you ever seen me make any such assertion?

She might honestly not know about "Diva." She refers back to "Delta."

"Your name is Toby, what's your name?" lashes whip
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance
"Massa gave you a name, it's a nice name and you are going to take it" lashes more whips
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance, again
"What's your name?" lashes more whips, as Kunte Kente falls to the ground...
"Toby" barely audible
"Ey, that's a good [expletive deleted]..."


What we think when you say to us that we have no connection to Africa...

Thanks for exacting your psychological determinants upon us! We sho do appreciate it Massa!!! :)

african traditions, just like any other, were often formed to cope with our environment or increase our chances of reproduction. similar to evolution. as such, we'll see similarities and differences among practices and traditions in not just human, but all species.

That's a good point.

You will forget about Africa, I say!!!

Come again?

answering this statement....

Oh, we're back to him again.

Well, can you explain how you answered that question, then? Or maybe begin by explaining how you interpreted his question? Please.

This is true. Even though we all have our own national/local philanthropic endeavors, our organizations focus more on helping the individual become a better man or better woman. Which, IMO, there is nothing wrong with. IFC/NPC is different from NPHC/MCG which is fine.

Just out of curiosity, who helped LUL be founded? I know the connection between SLB and Phi Beta Sigma but I don't know about LUL.

See, if I were a member of an NPHC org, this would bother me. (This and the fact that other minority or culturally based orgs are copying the traditions).

Yeah, stepping/strolling/calls/etc might be cool and, sure, they're a great recruitment tool. But it seems like everyone copying them is doing so just to be cool and they don't understand the meaning/significance of their traditions.

Nah, I think everyone knows that BGLOs started stepping/strolling/calls/etc.

That's one of the reasons why LTA, to me, is the best sorority for hispanic women. You guys seem to have your own traditions and not copy what the other orgs are doing just to be cool.

I have a mothership connection you would NEVER understand... ;)

I am totally lost on these comments, too? :confused:

Unless he was literally saying...show me African tradition A (and of course, "African" is that generally African like 98% of people who live in Africa and consider themselves Africans practice it, or specific, like a specific tribe in Africa) that is seen (without mutation) in Europe, Asian, South America, then of course, we won't be able to exactly give him the examples. But, I feel that the gist of a lot of our "traditions" and and cultural norms and practices stem from coping with the environment or upping our chances of passing on our genes. As such, if you look at migration or environmental similarities and differences across the world, you would be able to track the similarities and differences of african tradition among other cultures (and vice-versa).

For example, you could say that show me the tradition in other parts of where where FGM is also practiced. You probably couldn't, but if you look at the under reason (to keep girls from having sex before their husbands, or to keep wives from cheating on their husbands), and you will see similar practices in many other places of the world (keeping a woman completely clothed, foot binding, etc).

No, TOBY!!!! Noooooooo!!!! :p

*****

I am probably really late on this but I'm happy to have found some African, Carribean, and African Diasporic networking sites that add to the cross-continent connections between us.

I think that's what he was requesting and we could give him examples if we didn't think we'd be trying to "prove" something to a moron. ;)

LOL :D

Just let your SOUL GLO!!!
 

Soul Glo...

:D

There go those African traditions! :p