GreekChat.com Forums
Page 3 of 4 12 3 4
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Greek Life (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   Most chapters at Phi Beta Kappa schools (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=94276)

TSteven 03-04-2008 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1612210)
I (the specific I) have provided the best way to obtain the information.
Yes, you were kind enough to offer suggestions. As such, perhaps oldu is currently working on it.

Quote:
But for the record -- did anyone really care that much about the information being presented on ANY of the councils?
For the record, I doubt it. But as has already been said by others: "It's just some observations to chat about."

Quote:
If you're going to have a thread as general as "Most chapters at Phi Beta Kappa schools" and not qualify it as being about WHITE GLOS only (yes, I said it, and for a reason), then yes, oldu should be held to a standard of doing research on just nine more orgs and making it complete.
I agree that it is unfortunate that the original post was not qualified - i.e. "White GLOs".

Quote:
Hell, several of the NPHCs are older than some of the NICs and NPCS.

And let's not get into Phi Beta Kappa schools where there are ONLY NPHC orgs.
True. I may be in the minority here, but I would find the information on NPHCs and Phi Beta Kappa schools interesting as well - more observations to chat about.

Little32 03-04-2008 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low C Sharp (Post 1612164)

Surely the data show a pattern. If there's really no relationship between PBK chapters and some social GLOs, then you wouldn't expect to see such massive variation among the GLOs in one conference. You'd expect to see a large number of groups around the mean and a few outliers at the top and bottom of the scale. But you don't see that -- not even close. In fact, there's a statistically remarkable clustering of a few groups that have huge PBK overlap. There's clearly a non-random association between (for example) KKG and PBK, and that is of interest even when the data themselves say nothing about the cause. That's where the chat comes in.
And I don't deny the fact that this might be interesting statistically, but my point still stands; and to my original point I will add that the concept of "elite" is relative.

tallgreekalum 03-04-2008 06:20 PM
percentages?
 
Alpha Delt has 26 chapters in the US (3 in Canada). Two (Chapman and Northeastern) do not have PBK chapters. 90%, if my math is right.

tallgreekalum 03-04-2008 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scully (Post 1612178)
LOL. If you're going to get technical, the NCAA is not the governing body of Intercollegiate Equestrian. The Intercollegiate Horse Show Association, or IHSA, is. It was developed by Bob Cacchione in 1967... http://www.ihsainc.com/ I rode all 4 years at school and still am actively involved as an alum :)

ETA: Sorry! I apologize :) This is different from what I am involved in... http://www.varsityequestrian.com/ In my university, we were considered a club and did not have varsity status.
Just for shits and giggles, 18 out of 28 in Alpha Delt:) That's a lot of horse puckie:)

tallgreekalum 03-04-2008 07:59 PM
How about Quiz Bowl teams next?:)

Benzgirl 03-04-2008 10:41 PM
Bash me if you want, but what I will say was with good heart and naivety.

I was doing some research of the GLOs at my Alma Mater throughout the past 100 years. When it came to NPHCs, I found it difficult to trace. What I didn't realize was that they typically were not chapters of the university per se, but city-wide chapters.

Since I have had trouble tracking their presence at just one school, I can imagine how difficult it is tracking it over numerous schools.

BTW...if anyone can direct me where to find the information, please PM me.

honeychile 03-04-2008 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaDancer (Post 1612206)
True. And that appreciation for scholarship is what enables me to further appreciate that when one presents research, one is prepared to explain and defend it without resorting to namecalling. Appreciating scholarship means asking questions and seeking clarification, not just taking something at face value.

He was asked to provide his working definition of the word "elite." As far as I can tell, not only did he never define that term, but he called those who questioned it "rude." Nothing scholarly about behavior like that...

ETA: I do appreciate the time that oldu puts into these lists and I have found some of them to be very interesting. But I also think that people have asked some very legitimate questions that deserve to be addressed.
For the record, I'm in agreement with ThetaDancer, especially the part I put into bold print in regards to this thread.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutBrnHair (Post 1612132)
oldu does a lot of work compiling these threads and I enjoy them. He stated that he would include NPHC groups if he had an accurate list. I think he's being more than accomodating.
I call bullshat on that. Even when the topic didn't require an actual list but rather a knowledge of the history of GLOs, he didn't include NPHC orgs.

He does a lot of work to compile these threads and he doesn't include NPHC orgs. Ever. That's how he's able to talk about the best of times and the worst of times without even a "sidebar" of how his synopsis isn't all encompassing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutBrnHair (Post 1612132)
oldu, I understand the correlation and really appreciate you putting up with all this!
Putting up with all of what? And what would he be doing if he wasn't "putting up with this?" Not post? Remind us of how rude and angry we are. Ha.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1612194)
so i'm lazy. is there a point to be proven?
No.

Hewwo.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1612199)
I understand your point of view. And for sake of discussion, lets say that perhaps he is lazy. So what? Is it oldu's responsibility to provide the list?
Is it oldu's responsibility to do anything that he continues to do? He's become the dondada of GLO history on GC. Somehow. :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1612199)
If someone really cares enough about that information being on GC
We generally don't and more than likely won't be investing in a list soley for the purpose of GC.

But since someone continues to volunteer these random threads, we can comment on the exclusion.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzgirl (Post 1612397)
Bash me if you want, but what I will say was with good heart and naivety.

I was doing some research of the GLOs at my Alma Mater throughout the past 100 years. When it came to NPHCs, I found it difficult to trace. What I didn't realize was that they typically were not chapters of the university per se, but city-wide chapters.

Since I have had trouble tracking their presence at just one school, I can imagine how difficult it is tracking it over numerous schools.

BTW...if anyone can direct me where to find the information, please PM me.
This all depends on where you are. But if there are only citywide chapters, there are only citywide chapters. Sometimes there were chapters at a university but they were difficult to hold onto so instead there were core chapters or citywide chapters. You can find a way to access the initiates from your university and find out whether there was EVER a chapter at the school.

Sidebar:
However, most of the schools listed in the PBK post don't only have citywide chapters and if you can't find the chapters via the organization's websites you can find it via the universities' websites. Am I the only person who finds social GLO chapters and PBK chapters listed on university/college websites these days?

ladygreek 03-05-2008 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzgirl (Post 1612397)
Bash me if you want, but what I will say was with good heart and naivety.

I was doing some research of the GLOs at my Alma Mater throughout the past 100 years. When it came to NPHCs, I found it difficult to trace. What I didn't realize was that they typically were not chapters of the university per se, but city-wide chapters.

Since I have had trouble tracking their presence at just one school, I can imagine how difficult it is tracking it over numerous schools.

BTW...if anyone can direct me where to find the information, please PM me.
Just for the record, the vast majority of DST's chapters are campus-based. And even when they are city-wide they are registered as a student org at a least one of the colleges/universities, so they are able to book meeting rooms, etc. For example, the Twin Cities city-wide chapter is registered at the U of MN and even does their financial transactions through the U.

You also may be confusing city-wide with core chapters, where a chapter is campus-based, but has permission from the school to include other nearby schools.

But very honestly, let's be real here. The issue for us NPHCers is that when lists like this are compiled including us (or other GLOs of color) doesn't even cross the poster's mind. That is not to say that poster is a bad person it's just the reality we as people of color face in everyday life. Unless inclusion is pointed out, we will continue to be ignored. And that is frustrating.

And the excuses given here are no different than in the workplace, when a hiring manager says I tried to find a candidate of color, but none came forward. My response is did you do your research as to what publications, etc. a person of color is more likely to read and see the job posting?

DSTRen13 03-05-2008 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1612456)
However, most of the schools listed in the PBK post don't only have citywide chapters and if you can't find the chapters via the organization's websites you can find it via the universities' websites. Am I the only person who finds social GLO chapters and PBK chapters listed on university/college websites these days?
Doing this kind of thing using each school's website seems a LOT easier than trying to correlate massive chapter listings for each organization ...

starang21 03-05-2008 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1612446)
No.

Hewwo.
hi.

come over.

SWTXBelle 03-05-2008 10:04 AM
I too appreciate oldu's research. Please, oldu, continue to post interesting facts and figures.

It seems that the solution to the bad feelings that have arisen is for him to a.) specify which type (i.e. NPC) of GLOs he is discussing in the thread title and b.) present his research independent of his analysis (i.e., that PBK = elite university = smarter members). This is not to say that anyone's analysis (including his) would not be part of the ensuing discussion - but to first present the facts, and then talk about what it means.

As an aside, he may simply not feel compelled to research GLOs with which he is not as personally familiar. While of course not a member of a NPC, the fact is that NPC groups are very similiar to IFC (and the various alphabet soup governing bodies ) fraternities.

Senusret I 03-05-2008 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1612582)
While of course not a member of a NPC, the fact is that NPC groups are very similiar to IFC (and the various alphabet soup governing bodies ) fraternities.
How so?

SWTXBelle 03-05-2008 11:10 AM
They usually exist as sort of parallel groups - their histories have been intertwined, they do social and philanthropic things together, they are run on the international/national level in similiar ways. There are differences, of course,(in recruitment, for example) but NPC sororities and for lack of a better overall term the HWfraternities have a great deal in common. That's all I meant.

Senusret I 03-05-2008 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1612611)
They usually exist as sort of parallel groups - their histories have been intertwined, they do social and philanthropic things together, they are run on the international/national level in similiar ways. There are differences, of course,(in recruitment, for example) but NPC sororities and for lack of a better overall term the HWfraternities have a great deal in common. That's all I meant.
Very interesting.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1612461)
But very honestly, let's be real here. The issue for us NPHCers is that when lists like this are compiled including us (or other GLOs of color) doesn't even cross the poster's mind. That is not to say that poster is a bad person it's just the reality we as people of color face in everyday life. Unless inclusion is pointed out, we will continue to be ignored. And that is frustrating.
And it isn't the first time we've said this in a thread. This is just the first time that it has gotten a response from someone other than 33girl (and, I think, MyticCat). :p

SWTXBelle 03-05-2008 11:25 AM
Do you think that it might just be that the poster is not that familiar with historically BGLOs? A variation of "stay in your lane"?

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1612526)
Doing this kind of thing using each school's website seems a LOT easier than trying to correlate massive chapter listings for each organization ...
Yeah, as someone posted, the PBK website lists its chapters.

From there, I found that Cornell University's website isn't elusive with this info. And...wow it even categorizes the orgs by IFC, Panhellenic Association, and MCG Council:

http://www.greeks.cornell.edu/fslist.php

Some sites may be more difficult to navigate but most won't be. And that just means you'll have to fill in the blanks after you access the easily found info. Those who like doing this stuff can have a field day, which can include NPHC (and MCGLO orgs, even if these orgs tend to be younger and smaller).

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1612624)
Do you think that it might just be that the poster is not that familiar with historically BGLOs? A variation of "stay in your lane"?
He's familiar enough to announce that he couldn't find a comprehensive list of NPHC chapters.

Enough of the excuses.

SWTXBelle 03-05-2008 11:50 AM
Not an excuse - I don't think he needs an "excuse". If he doesn't want to do NPHC groups, I don't think he has to, although I do agree that he should label the thread so he doesn't raise expectations that the thread will be comprehensive.

I just wondered if that could be a reason - I like to do research on NPC orgs, and in fact am working on a book. While I could certainly do the same with NPHC, since I am not personally familiar with the groups on any but a second-hand basis I would not do it because I would be afraid of missing an important component of the subjective aspects. It's not that I don't think it's important - quite the contrary. I think it is so important that it needs to addressed by someone who understands them on both an objective and an emotional level.

That said, I'm sorry that so many feel ignored by this and other threads. One thing I really value about GC is the opportunity to learn about all the BGLOs and the newer multi-culturalGLOs. I've lead a sheltered life from a Greek perspective, and I'm glad to have the chance to hear from actives and alumni of groups with which I've had no personal experience.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1612660)
If he doesn't want to do NPHC groups, I don't think he has to....
DUH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1612660)
although I do agree that he should label the thread so he doesn't raise expectations that the thread will be comprehensive.
Right and The End.

NutBrnHair 03-05-2008 11:55 AM
I'll add this...
 
Let's just say that the NPC & NIC groups are more similar in that all of us include a listing of collegiate chapters on our websites.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutBrnHair (Post 1612664)
Let's just say that the NPC & NIC groups are more similar in that all of us include a listing of collegiate chapters on our websites.
This is groundbreaking. Let's break out the good China. ;)

Sidebar: Even if there aren't lists on national websites, from some of our national websites you will find links to our regional/district websites. From our regional/district websites you will find lists of the active chapters in that region.

Senusret I 03-05-2008 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutBrnHair (Post 1612664)
Let's just say that the NPC & NIC groups are more similar in that all of us include a listing of collegiate chapters on our websites.
No you don't, Nut.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1612673)
No you don't, Nut.
They don't? I've never checked all the NPC and IFC sites to know whether they do or don't. NutBrn lied. :mad:

Senusret I 03-05-2008 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1612675)
They don't? I've never checked all the NPC and IFC sites to know whether they do or don't. NutBrn lied. :mad:
It only takes one of 26 to make it an untruth. I checked two. The second one didn't.

Womp, womp.

I'm still trying to figure out why nine phone calls is hard.

DSTCHAOS 03-05-2008 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1612677)
It only takes one of 26 to make it an untruth. I checked two. The second one didn't.
Stamp me with a DUH and send me on my way. :o

Senusret I 03-05-2008 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1612680)
Stamp me with a DUH and send me on my way. :o
I'm sorry, the DUH stamp is reserved. ;)

But no seriously, I thought it was a pretty bold statement to say that ALL 26 had a chapter listing, when only one of the NPHC doesn't have a listing or access to regional listings.

And to be honest, I did end up finding a chapter locater on that second one after all. :o

fantASTic 03-05-2008 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldu (Post 1611339)
Phi Beta Kappa has a very select standard for placing its chapters so it is a pretty good gauge for determnining which institutions are the likeliest to have the brightest students that we would all want in our organizations. Here is a list of the sororities and fraternities which have the most chapters at Phi beta Kappa schools:

(1) Kappa Kappa Gamma 109, (2) Delta Gamma 99, (3) Pi Beta Phi 97, (4) Kappa Alpha Theta 95, (5) Delta Delta Delta 90, (6) Chi Omega 89, (7) Alpha Chi Omega 87, (8) Alpha Phi 74, (9) Kappa Delta 64, (10) Gamma Phi Beta 61, (11) Alpha Delta Pi 57, (12) Delta Zeta & Sigma Kappa 44, (14) Zeta Tau Alpha 40, (15) Sigma Delta Tau 38, (16) Alpha Omicron Pi 37, (17) Alpha Epsilon Phi, Alpha Gamma Delta, Alpha Xi Delta & Phi Mu 31, (21) Phi Sigma Sigma 22, (22) Delta Phi Epsilon 16, (23) Sigma Sigma Sigma 13, (24) Alpha Sigfma Alpha 8, (25) Theta Phi Alpha 4 & (26) Alpha Sigm Tau.

(1) Sigma Chi 117, (2) Sigma Alpha Epsilon 112, (3) Sigma Phi Epsilon 110, (4) Pi Kappa Alpha 95, (5) Kappa Sigma & Lambda Chi Alpha 85, (7) Phi Delta Theta 84, (8) Sigma Nu 83, (9) Beta Theta Pi 79, (10) Alpha Epsilon Pi 78, (11) Phi Gamma Delta 74, (12) Delta Tau Delta 70, (13) Tau Kappa Epsilon 69, (14) Alpha Tau Omega 66, (15) Phi Kappa Psi 64, (16) Theta Chi 57, (17) Kappa Alpha 56, (18) Pi Kappa Phi 54, (19) Delta Upsilon 52, (20) Delta Chi 50, (21) Sigma Pi 49, (22) Sigma Alpha Mu 48, (23) Phi Kappa Tau 39, (24) Alpha Gamma Rho, Delta Kappa Epsilon & Zeta Beta Tau 37, (27) Delta Sigma Phi 35, & (28) Chi Phi & Phi Sigma Kappa 33.

Among the sororities, it appears that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta, Kappa Kappa Gamma & Sigma Delta Tau have the highest percentage of their chapters at the more elite institutions. With the fraternities, Alpha Gamma Rho, Delta Tau Delta, Delta Upsilon, Phi Gamma Delta & Phi Kappa Psi have the highest percentage.

Okay, I know I'm late to the party but I HAD to say something to this. You have no idea what you're talking about here. Sororities don't just go for the same type of school. AST was founded as a TEACHING SORORITY - we primarily chartered chapters at teaching schools. So did Tri Sigma and others. You do NOT have the right to tell me that my sorority is the 'worst' sorority because we share the fewest campuses with Phi Beta Kappa.

Low C Sharp 03-05-2008 12:48 PM
Quote:
You do NOT have the right to tell me that my sorority is the 'worst' sorority
He said that? I think you can tell him why he's wrong based on what he actually wrote.
________
Sexxyassblack

SWTXBelle 03-05-2008 12:51 PM
Don't feel bad - the fact of the matter is that Phi Beta Kappa criteria are one, and only one, way to judge a school. The problem in ranking schools is that it is so hard to come up with objective measures which everyone will agree to - witness the controversy every year when U.S. News & World Report and Newsweek announce their rankings of schools.

fantASTic 03-05-2008 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low C Sharp (Post 1612696)
He said that? I think you can tell him why he's wrong based on what he actually wrote.
He said that the chapters at those schools have "the brightest students that we would all want in our organizations." So I suppose he didn't say it in the words I did, but he might as well have.

Senusret I 03-05-2008 01:25 PM
Perception is reality. In this case, it just underscores what a "boneheaded" idea for a thread this was in the first place.

TSteven 03-05-2008 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1612448)
Is it oldu's responsibility to do anything that he continues to do?
Not at all.

Quote:
He's become the dondada of GLO history on GC. Somehow. :confused:
If you say so. ;)

Quote:
We generally don't and more than likely won't be investing in a list soley for the purpose of GC.

But since someone continues to volunteer these random threads, we can comment on the exclusion.
Absolutely. As it should be. :D

oldu 03-05-2008 03:01 PM
Both the NPC & NIC make available lists of each campus and which of their organizaitons are on it. That makes reports such as this far simpler. Does anyone know if NPHC has such a list? If it is available I will be more than happy to revise the list to include those groups...and multi-nationals if those are available. I realize that it may look like I attempted to slight some groups, Actually I was only working with material available. I am right now trying to assemble a list of all chapters of NPHC groups and, despite what some peolpe are saying, it is not an easy task. If there is a complete and concise list for your organization please advise where I can find it so that your information is not omited in the future.

Denise_DPhiE 03-05-2008 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1612183)
Are you serious? It's not about caring enough -- he can make NINE phone calls and most likely get all the information he needs! LAZY!
Six actually b/c 3 of the Divine 9 are also in NIC which he already has. Sheesh!!!! Maybe he ran out of cel phone minutes....

Senusret I 03-05-2008 03:21 PM
^^^ LMAO


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:17 PM.
Page 3 of 4 12 3 4
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.