Of course there are "prestigious" schools everywhere. In your case, the schools where you may have been encouraged to go to, happen to have stronger Greek systems. The schools that many kids in my area/school/system were encouraged (pushed) to go to happen to have weaker Greek systems.

There is also the difference in the sizes of the campuses. In the northeast, the on-campus populations are much smaller compared to some of the "regional" schools in the midwest and south.

Regarding Greek culture - Things like holding rush before school even begins (where girls might leave school before classes start because she didn't get her choice chapter), being a legacy and being groomed to a join particular GLO and/or GLO at a particular campus, having Greeks dominate high-profile student leadership positions ...these things are largely unheard of up here. The focus is mostly on "how strong" your major program is.

There are cultural differences between a school that is known for its academics vs. a school known for being a big Greek school. When students are applying to schools, more importance is put on the strength of their academic program than the strength of the Greek system. In some cases, it may be both, but as generalizations go, the difference is pretty evident, at least at first glance.

Not with me. National name recognition means that across the nation one would hear the name and know it was a NPC sorority. That doesn't take away from an org's validity, I'm just saying that is a very broad statement to make.

I would not presume that my own sorority (or the rest of the NPHC) has national name recognition even within the Black community, much less out of it. And there are only nine NPHC orgs.

We are in agreement, then. I didn't say you NEVER have an awesome Greek experience w/ big membership and big house, I said that those things don't AUTOMATICALLY make a person the happiest Greek in Greekland or automatically make the chapters the "best."

You would be miserable at my school, I would be miserable at yours. In the end, we both got what made us happy.

Of course the NPCs don't have name recognition like, oh, say Coke. But I can't understand how any member of a NPC group, or for that matter an international/national fraternity, can remain ignorant of the orgs. If they are, it's a reflection on the individual,not the GLO.
Within the community at large I would not expect non-greeks to have any familiarity with the groups. That's one of the problems with negative information about any greek org - Joe Blow on the street thinks we are all alike, so when something bad happens we are all guilty by association.
I'm kinda surprised, Ladygreek, that NPHC members wouldn't be up to speed about other member GLOs. Heck, I'm familiar with all 9, and they were not all at either of my colleges. Do the orgs only cover their individual org history? I know we had to learn NPC history as part of our pledgeship.
I think membership is enhanced when you know more about your own org, and others. It helps to understand how the system evolved, and gives you an appreciation for the struggles and achievements of all the other GLOs.

LG referenced our name recognition in the Black community as a whole, not within the NPHC community specifically.

Bottom line regarding name recognition for anyone or anything, you can't be familiar with that which you are not exposed.

For argument's sake ...

If you came to my area and mentioned Pi Phi, AChiO, etc, and other more or less "southern" sororities, people would look at you with a cocked head and react with WTF is that?

So do those considered as having "national name recognition" no longer have it, or does my area just not count?

We were taught basic information, and respect given to, about other NPHC organizations.


If people want to know more details about other NPHC (or other) organizations they could "research" them before or after the membership intake process.

Did you type this in agreement with ladygreek's post?

Just to kind set the scene - bowsandtoes ( a member of a national/international fraternity, I believe) implied that Theta Phi Alpha did not have national name recognition. My point is that they are indeed a national NPC GLO, and thus they have a national name recognition. That doesn't mean that everyone knows it, or that you can stop any greek and they would know it. It does mean that anyone active in NPC activity would know it, and I think certainly all NPC members should at least recognize it as part of the NPC. No man is an island, and no NPC exists alone. The more you know, the more you appreciate both your own history and the movement in general. Because fraternities co-exist with the NPC groups, I'd expect them to be familiar with the groups, just as I am with both large and small IFC members and the like groups.
I just hate the implied superiority in the idea that if a group is not at YOUR campus or YOUR part of the country, they are somehow inferior.

For some reason, I can't quote today, but my own take:

-First of all, Georgia Wesleyan College for Females (now Georgia Wesleyan) was the first college in the US which even allowed women to earn a degree, period. So, of course the first two sororities were founded there, in the South. I highly doubt that the "control" of either ADPi or Phi Mu was ever in the North, even if ADPi had a few years of a national headquarters in Iowa. The influence was always Southern in tradition.

-For the most part, unless one's a legacy, more youngsters hear about Greek life in the South prior to middle school, as opposed to in the North, where few non-legacies hear about it until high school or even college. A few of the teachers in our elementary school were Southern Greeks and told us all about it; my sixth grade teacher made us memorize the Greek alphabet frontwards and backwards! There could have been Greeks who went to school in the North, I just never heard about them.

-I graduated from high school with over 700 people. The one reunion I went to, the Greeks seemed to hang together, and it was a goodly number of the formerly college prep/advanced placement classes. Notice that I don't mention the, "oh, I decided to go to college" people" - it was mostly those who really planned it out.

-I'm still not wild about the 6-8 week new member period. I can understand it for individual GLO purposes, but I think the Panhellenic concept gets lost. Does any school still have Junior Panhel?

Excellent post. Of course, I may be a bit biased, but I completely agree.

This entire thread is really starting to irritate me. I knew from the beginning that it would end up being an "us" versus "them" debate. The thing is that it's not a productive debate.

There's clearly a lot of misconceptions going on on both sides but nothing is being cleared up. It's just being divisive, particularly among members of the NPC.

If I could just get one thing clarified it would be great. BowandToes, when you say that Northern chapters are small, just how small are you assuming they are?

Why would be taught about other GLOs? Let's not get into the reason why BGLOs were formed in the first place. Very honestly, I never new much about the NPC until my sorority constitutionalized four years ago that anyone who was a member or had been a member of a NPC could not seek membership in Delta (which was caused by the increased number in recent years of those who wanted to do so.)

So I researched just who were the NPC. Between that and GC is how I have gained my knowledge of the NPC in the last four years, and I have been a member of the NPHC for 39 years. The NPC just wasn't on my radar. Again that doesn't denigrate the NPC, it just bolsters my point about national name recognition even within the total GLO--BGLOs, LGLOs, AGLOs, MCGLOs, etc.

Yep.

Are all GLOs taught about BGLOs, LGLOs, and MCGLOs? If not, then what's the point of acting surprised that BGLOs don't formally teach about all GLOs?

Those of us who exist on campuses with GLOs have the opportunity to learn about GLOs, collaborate on programs, and work closely together. That's what we did and that's more than enough.

And I would venture to say that your campus was more progressive than most--kudos.

Sorry, I definitely contributed to the hijack, so I should probably answer the original question.

My impression is that Greek life is "hot" in the South (and by the South I mean the SEC, or similar environments. My boyfriend and several of my cousins are alums of non-SEC southern schools and had experiences not entirely different from my own) due to tradition. If, as various posters have indicated, kids grow up hearing all about their family members' experiences at X State U. as a member of XYZ, then of course the seeds of interest are planted early. This would be especially true when being an XYZ or an ABC is touted as a way to get ahead socially and professionally. It also seems that Greek life is also often the center of the social scenes at such schools, which is not the case in most other areas that I'm familiar with. Of course, this impression is totally based on what I've learned on GC, so please correct me if I'm off.

Whereas, in other parts of the country, it doesn't seem as common for parents and other influential figures (teachers etc) to so openly discuss their Greek affiliation. It seems to me that being Greek outside of the SEC is viewed more as a compliment to the college experience as opposed to THE college experience.

I'm not saying that one view is right and the other is wrong. Obviously both work in their respective areas and fortunately the NPC (I can't speak for the other umbrella groups) is flexible enough to accommodate both types of experiences.

Co-sign!!!!!!!!

I'm going back to the excellent answer MysticCat provided. Why is greek life "hot" in the south?

The humidity.

The "campus" wasn't progressive but a few individuals got along really well and decided to make (organization and chapter-specific) NPC-NPHC social and service connections. :)

And I am sure you played a big role in that. Again kudos. :D

What is this thread about, really? :)

I'm not trying to nit pic, but it isn't that har to know the orgs of the NPHC as there are only 9 and of those 9 only 4 are Sororities.

Would I be reaching too far to say that ANY NPHC org stands alone? I don't think so.

Maybe not on all campuses and all orgs, but I would expect our new members to be familiar with the BGLOs, LGLOs and MCGLOs on our campus at the VERY least. In fact, it's included in New Member Education.

Are the NPCs/IFCs on your campus included in your NME? Sorry if that's not cool to ask, I'm not sure.

Whoops
 

Let me clarify my clarification - 'cause I wasn't specific enough. I'm surprised any member of the NPC or member of what I guess you can call non-BGLO or multi-cultural fraternities isn't at least aware of other NPC members - in this case, I was responding to bowsandtoes. I wouldn't expect the BGLOs or multicultural groups to know the members of the NPC, or study them as a part of pledging or intake. Kudos to them if they did, or for those of you who have picked up information on GC. I've certainly learned a great deal about non-NPC sororities here - rule #1 - DON'T ASK ABOUT INTAKE. :)

And I was surprised when ladygreek said other NPHC groups don't study the other 8 - maybe I wasn't clear about that. Sorry if I sounded like I was criticizing NPHC groups for not knowing about NPC - that isn't what I meant to convey.

I realize that this has moved beyond the north/south thing - but to some extent it is emblematic of the problem. The world is much larger than just your town, and the Greek world is much larger than just your org ( or even your GLO's umbrella group). It's easy to assume that the way you and your campus "do it" is the right way, but the fact of the matter is that campuses and GLOs are able to meet a variety of different needs by virtue of their differences. GMTA, Legallybrunette.

Well, here's the thing.

If someone referenced a group w/ three Greek letters in it while making a post about sororities and Greek life, I'd google it instead of just saying "I don't know what that is" and looking like an asshat.

The internet has made it pretty impossible to be ignorant unless you wish to remain so.

No.

That information was accessible through everyday Greek Life and campus interactions, since racial and ethnic minorities and NPHC orgs were a greatly outnumbered minority. So people who didn't live in a bubble pick this information on NPC/IFC up because it was everywhere. :)

"Study" is where the miscommunication may be.

In general, we are expected to know basic info about other NPHC organizations but we don't "study" these organizations.

This goes back to understanding the history behind the NPHC. I don't think an aspirant can appreciate Delta's history and worth without knowing a certain amount of information about the other NPHC orgs (and a little info on Greek Life, in general). Just like I believe an aspirant who is ignorant to certain aspects of American history can't place many of Delta's accomplishments within the proper contexts.

You'd be hard pressed to come across an aspirant who doesn't know some basic info on NPHC orgs because even before the internet, aspirants were expected to be inquisitive and wide-eyed.

this is only speaking for us, and an interjection, not a debate. we were asked to research and make presentations on the NPC, NPHC, and IFC, as well as all the other orgs in the MGC. it wasn't something we had to memorize, and i certainly couldn't name all 26 NPC orgs off the top of my head or anything like that, but as a newer organization, our founders rightly felt it was nessessary for us to be aware of where we come from and be knowledgeable about other orgs. however, charter lines are required to do this, chapter lines are only reccomended.

Gotcha. Part of my confusion was that I thought it would be very difficult to understand the history of a BGLO without some reference to the other groups - but now I think I've got it.

Slight change of focus - is there an appreciable difference in north and south chapters of BGLOs?

I consider anything under 100 total to be a small chapter, good chapter size would be 150-200.

As for the issue of chapter size and national recognition, I referenced a few sororities that I thought had greater name recognition in any region. Chi-o for instance, has about 175 chapters according to wikipedia. The site I looked at for the other sorority showed about 40-50 chapters, mostly in the Midwest. I'm not saying that makes it 'bad' by midwest standards, just that it wouldn't be viewed the same way in the South.

That's the context in which you all did this. :)

Yes..this makes sense. It would be a waste of time for anyone to spend hours learning everything there is to know about an org they will never be a part of.

No.

A musical intermission - courtesy of "Barnum!"
 

Bigger isn't better
Taller isn't braver
Stronger isn't always wise

Smaller isn't necessarily the lesser
Guts can come in any size

Lady luck can favor
Just a little shaver
Over one who's 6-foot-3

Brains in any tussle
Mop the floor with muscle
Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

(Chorus:)
Bigger isn't keener
Larger isn't bolder
Higher might be low inside
When you need to lean upon a friendly shoulder
Narrow's just as good as wide
See the mighty lion sittin there and crying bitten by a tiny flea
Mammoth was colossal what's he now? A fossil!
Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

What strong and hope they lag along
Get brains and heart
That handsome hunk might be a Lilliputian medley,
Proven consequently...
Though he shows his shoulders twice as big as boulders
If his brain's a tiny pea
When your in a pickle
He ain't worth a nickel
Bet your life I'm...Bet your life I'm glad I'm me

Not that I have noticed.

yeah, that's what i meant when i said i wasn't debating. lol, it would be pretty silly for me to be like "Well, we do it, so why don't ya'll???" i understand why we did it and i feel it was very enlightened of our founders to realize that we had to be twice as knowledgeable to get half the respect coming up as a new org. i certainly wouldn't be offended if you asked me general information like "what are your colors? what year were you founded?" because it's NOT general information to most people! but for us, we need to KNOW every else's facts without a doubt or we look like we don't respect our predecessors enough to find out.

Well, that's not where I was going with that. LOL.

I think your approach is an excellent one. When we incorporate such an approach it is on a chapter basis, and not uniform across chapters, because the context doesn't always warrant that.

For instance, there are tons of chapters that exist on HBCUs so the exposure to nonBGLO fraternities and sororities would be limited to those orgs that have chapters at HBCUs, which only applies to a few fraternities and sororities. :)

I think this is something that needs to be viewed in context, not only in terms of north v. south, but with regard to small v. large schools. 150-200 members per chapter at university with 30,000 undergrads is one thing; 200 members in a chapter at a school with 2000 students would be kind of ridiculous for any NPC org, regardless of whether it's Chi O or TPA (IMHO).

Finally, I totally understand that not everyone, especially in the South, will have heard of my org. I recognize that we're not a blip in the SEC world of tiers, etc. It's more a matter of the "asshat-vibe" (thanks 33) and choosing to remain ignorant that got under my skin.

ETA: bowsandtoes, I don't think you were doing that. I appreciate that you took a moment to learn.

And, Ilaria Ame, i think it's pretty awesome that your NME includes that info.

/I really did try to get this back on track before.

On that North/South discussion note, as a Yankee transplant in the South, I've noticed that the engagement announcements in the newspapers here usually state which sorority the girl is in. i.e. "Miss Suzie Bigrock attended xxx University where she was a member of xxx sorority and graduated with a bachelor of arts degree in English". They also mention the boys fraternity.

Just in regard to bowsandtoes. A good size chapter at some school may be 150+, and my school has sororities of this size, but due to the fact that we can not accomodate meetings for chapters of that size easily and if chapters continue to grow we'll be having meetings outside, we are doing the extension process so that the chapters can maintain a size that is healthy for OUR campus. So it's not a matter of any specific number being a good size at every campus, because if you look at it, the actual amount that is a "good size" is usually total that is usually set by the Panhellenic at the school. At some schools that may be 6 or 20, or 75, or 170. It really just depends. Campuses are different and greek life must accomodate those differences and vice versa. We are simply not all what your ideal of greek life is, nor do we aspire to be, because we can only hope to be our campuses best attainable concept of greek life. What's good for the goose does not work for the gander in this particular case. In addition to that. The school and the sororities already there pick the chapters that join when adding an additional sorority. So it's not your job to approve if perhaps its a smaller or larger one nationally. They pick what meets the needs of the campus and will continue to do so over time. It's not done at random, no one plunks down and says "this is it". It's a careful process. Similar (usually) for the fraternities. Those involved know what they're doing!

Please show me where I said that, although for my org it is true. There is plenty of our own history to learn. But that is not what I typed.